Super Supercharging !?!?!?!?

Kevin Harney · Aug 21, 2015

So I threw this out in another thread but did not want to hi jack it. Thoughts on this ?

The Model X mules/RCs appear to possibly have charging doors on both sides of the car. What is the fastest rate a Model S/X could theoretically charge ? My thought is that if you could plug a Model X into 2 superchargers you could possibly grab 650-700 mph and fill in 10-15 minutes. Given C rates and all that other technical stuff of which I know nothing what might be possible. Highly likely NONE of this will happen just interested in what is possible....

Saghost · Aug 21, 2015

I could be confused, but I thought that adjacent bays were usually the two plugs powered by the same cabinet - you'd have to pick carefully to get two different cabinets to have the kind of power you describe - which I'm pretty sure the battery pack can't take anyway.

Kevin Harney · Aug 21, 2015

Saghost said:
I could be confused, but I thought that adjacent bays were usually the two plugs powered by the same cabinet - you'd have to pick carefully to get two different cabinets to have the kind of power you describe - which I'm pretty sure the battery pack can't take anyway.

Perhaps you missed that this was a theoretical discussion. I realize that current superchargers would have a hard time allowing this. What I am looking for is exactly as you ask - what is the capacity of the battery to accept more charge ? How could all that power be delivered ? Eventually we need to get to the 10-15 charge time. How is the big question.

Bangor Bob · Aug 21, 2015

Well, assuming 90kWh pack, a 2C charge rate would be 180kW. Given how charge tapers today, it seems unlikely that the vehicle would utilize the output of more than one supercharger for very long.

Kevin Harney · Aug 21, 2015

Bangor Bob said:
Well, assuming 90kWh pack, a 2C charge rate would be 180kW. Given how charge tapers today, it seems unlikely that the vehicle would utilize the output of more than one supercharger for very long.

OK but are we limited to 2C ? I think I recall that the current batteries charge at greater than 2C for a short period or are capable of it. So how do we get 90kWh in 10 minutes ? I guess what I am getting at is forget hooking up to two chargers how can one carger produce that amount of power and if so how much can the car accept ?

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Saghost said:
I could be confused, but I thought that adjacent bays were usually the two plugs powered by the same cabinet - you'd have to pick carefully to get two different cabinets to have the kind of power you describe - which I'm pretty sure the battery pack can't take anyway.

And not really pick a 1B and a 2A. Not so hard.

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And might the new amounts of Silicon in the batteries improve the C rate ?

Bangor Bob · Aug 21, 2015

Max charge rate without damage is very chemistry- and temperature-dependent. 90kWh in 10 minutes would be a 540kW feed. In 15 minutes, 360kW. Two non-paired superchargers can deliver 270kW which is 3C and could take you from 0-50% in 10 minutes if the car allowed them to go at full-rate.

Kevin Harney · Aug 21, 2015

Bangor Bob said:
Max charge rate without damage is very chemistry- and temperature-dependent. 90kWh in 10 minutes would be a 540kW feed. In 15 minutes, 360kW. Two non-paired superchargers can deliver 270kW which is 3C and could take you from 0-50% in 10 minutes if the car allowed them to go at full-rate.

Thanks! Now we are talking !!! a half charge in 10 minutes would go well with the current spacing of superchargers and the current promotions of a half charge in 20 minutes. Are we limited to 3C or does anyone really know the limits of the current chemistry - meaning the 90kWh battery chemistry...

dhanson865 · Aug 25, 2015

Kevin Harney said:
OK but are we limited to 2C ? I think I recall that the current batteries charge at greater than 2C for a short period or are capable of it. So how do we get 90kWh in 10 minutes ? I guess what I am getting at is forget hooking up to two chargers how can one carger produce that amount of power and if so how much can the car accept ?

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And might the new amounts of Silicon in the batteries improve the C rate ?

The highest C rate we've documented is 1.85

The old limits were

Some can charge at 90 KW (85 KWh A battery pack, near 1.06C charge rate)
some can charge at 105 KW (60 KWh with older battery pack, 1.75C charge rate)
some can charge at 111 KW (60 KWh with newer battery pack, 1.85C charge rate)
some can charge at 120 KW (85 KWh B or D battery pack, near 1.41C charge rate)

If we could get 1.85C on a 90 kWh pack that'd be 167 KW. If they were limited by the charge port connector and using two connectors halves the heat they could easily do 150KW or 165KW and just let the power ramp down on both chargers at the same time.

Even at existing rates of 120KW it would reduce the heat on the charge cable and charge port by spreading the load.

Saghost · Aug 25, 2015

Kevin Harney said:
Thanks! Now we are talking !!! a half charge in 10 minutes would go well with the current spacing of superchargers and the current promotions of a half charge in 20 minutes. Are we limited to 3C or does anyone really know the limits of the current chemistry - meaning the 90kWh battery chemistry...

I don't think anyone outside Tesla and Panasonic really knows.

The Volt with different formats and different (but still energy oriented) chemistry allows 4C "charging" during regeneration, which is generally limited to a score of seconds.

Lithium Titanate based chemistries can manage 5C or more - In exchange for being heavier more expensive cells (BYD builds buses with them...)

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Super Supercharging !?!?!?!?

Kevin Harney

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Saghost

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Kevin Harney

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Bangor Bob

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Kevin Harney

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Bangor Bob

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Kevin Harney

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dhanson865

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Saghost

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