CA Gas Tax + $.12/gallon EV registrations +$100

RobStark · Aug 21, 2015

SACRAMENTO -- State lawmakers on Wednesday took the first steps toward raising taxes and fees on motorists and further restricting Californians' tobacco use as the Legislature convened special sessions aimed at solving the state's transportation and health care funding crises.

Members of a Senate committee tackling a huge backlog of roadway maintenance endorsed legislation that would generate $4 billion annually for repairs by increasing the gas tax 12 cents a gallon and boosting annual vehicle registration fees $35 for most cars. Fees for all-electric vehicles would go up $100.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...o-raise-californias-gas-tax-12-cents-a-gallon

This is in addition to cap and trade effect on oil refiners next year which the consensus says will raise the price of gasoline ~$.40 per gallon. The cap and trade fees imposed on petroleum suppliers this year has raised gasoline prices ~$.10 per gallon.

Robert.Boston · Aug 21, 2015

More idiocy in regulation:

The cost of owning an EV goes up $65/year (relative to owning a hybrid or ICE). You'd have to buy 542 gallons of gas each year for the extra $0.12/gal to bring $65 of additional revenue to California. In a Prius getting 50 mpg, you'd have to drive 27,083 miles/year to do that.

FlasherZ · Aug 21, 2015

Robert.Boston said:
More idiocy in regulation:

The cost of owning an EV goes up $65/year (relative to owning a hybrid or ICE). You'd have to buy 542 gallons of gas each year for the extra $0.12/gal to bring $65 of additional revenue to California. In a Prius getting 50 mpg, you'd have to drive 27,083 miles/year to do that.

That is if you can get 50 mpg out of a Prius, as I tend to get about 25 (gas pedal in "binary mode"). So about 10,800 miles @ 20 mpg, 13,500 miles @ 25 mpg, or 16,260 @ 30 mpg; seems in line with the types of cars that a lot of people in CA are driving. Something tells me that they should have made it slightly less to encourage more EV's, but I can't say they're way off. On top of it, Rob notes the effect of cap-and-trade on gasoline in CA.

Then again, this is about road maintenance, so mileage * weight seems more appropriate - trucking companies won't let that happen easily.

apacheguy · Aug 21, 2015

FlasherZ said:
Then again, this is about road maintenance, so mileage * weight seems more appropriate - trucking companies won't let that happen easily.

Precisely. EVs are not damaging our roads Sacramento! It's the trucks pure and simple. And why on Earth are we penalizing EVs? The Governor wants to have 1 million on the road by 2020. We are already missing the target by a long shot. Wake up Sacramento.

siucity · Aug 21, 2015

I wonder how much of these taxes go to the general fund, where it gets used for something other than the original intent of the taxes. There seems to be too many of those lately...

NorCalSJ · Aug 21, 2015

siucity said:
I wonder how much of these taxes go to the general fund, where it gets used for something other than the original intent of the taxes. There seems to be too many of those lately...

that's what I was thinking when I read this, what happen to all the gas tax money collected over the years???

mspohr · Aug 21, 2015

NorCalSJ said:
that's what I was thinking when I read this, what happen to all the gas tax money collected over the years???

They spend it on roads.
Gas tax is not enough to cover all costs and they receive federal and local taxes plus truck and car user fees and issue bonds to cover large projects.
Good analysis of the money and spending is here:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/offices/eab/fundchrt_files/Transportation_Funding_in_CA_2014.pdf

mknox · Aug 21, 2015

NorCalSJ said:
that's what I was thinking when I read this, what happen to all the gas tax money collected over the years???

Ugh. That's a problem everywhere, it seems. There's been talk of adding more tolls here where I live to make up for "shortfalls", but analysis has shown they aren't even spending as much on the roads as they currently collect in the name of "road taxes".

TheTalkingMule · Aug 21, 2015

Good lord, I'd almost be willing to vote for Herman Cain if it meant we could simplify taxes.

Lloyd · Aug 21, 2015

I thought we had to have a 2/3 majority vote to increase taxes in California! Oh yeah..... They called it a fee! Someone should challenge this.

apacheguy · Aug 21, 2015

Lloyd said:
I thought we had to have a 2/3 majority vote to increase taxes in California! Oh yeah..... They called it a fee! Someone should challenge this.

Pretty sure even fees require 2/3 vote. That was one of the props a couple years ago.

My bottom line is they cannot single out EVs. If they want to raise money, then it must impact everyone equally. I'd rather have a $100 surcharge that affects all drivers of all models, not just EVs.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney · Aug 21, 2015

FlasherZ said:
That is if you can get 50 mpg out of a Prius, as I tend to get about 25 (gas pedal in "binary mode"). So about 10,800 miles @ 20 mpg, 13,500 miles @ 25 mpg, or 16,260 @ 30 mpg; seems in line with the types of cars that a lot of people in CA are driving. Something tells me that they should have made it slightly less to encourage more EV's, but I can't say they're way off. On top of it, Rob notes the effect of cap-and-trade on gasoline in CA.

Then again, this is about road maintenance, so mileage * weight seems more appropriate - trucking companies won't let that happen easily.

Well more sum(f(mileage,weight,road)).

Trucking already pays by weight-mile in OR and a few other states.

Right now it'd be pretty easy: let BEV ~= Prius, pay $gas_tax/50 per mile. Really, BEVs are dead easy. I mean, it's not exactly hard to implement:
1) Unique vehicle identifier
2) Device to read distance traveled.

The problem is a system during transition for PHEVs. You pay for some gas, you pay for some miles traveled. Unless you have a standard based on vehicle EPA ratings, you'd end up having to claim money back somehow.

If _everybody_ paid based on odometer it'd be easy.

FlatSix911 · Aug 21, 2015

The way I see it, the additional $65 fee is a fair deal for EV registration.
Just keep in mind that ICE vehicles have to pay $50+ for smog certification bi-annually.

Lloyd · Aug 21, 2015

How is it Fair? What do they tax hybrids additional.?

ecarfan · Aug 21, 2015

I have no problem paying increased taxes or fees that go towards building and maintaining roads and infrastructure that everyone can use. I was born and raised in California and still live there. The reality is that good public infrastructure is essential and it is worth paying for.

omgwtfbyobbq · Aug 21, 2015

Robert.Boston said:
More idiocy in regulation:

The cost of owning an EV goes up $65/year (relative to owning a hybrid or ICE). You'd have to buy 542 gallons of gas each year for the extra $0.12/gal to bring $65 of additional revenue to California. In a Prius getting 50 mpg, you'd have to drive 27,083 miles/year to do that.

Seeing as that Prius (and every other vehicle) is already paying ~$.42c/gallon, it's not a huge difference. It's about the same as a Prius ~50mpg and ~10k miles/year. IMO, the problem is that this still leaves passenger vehicles footing the bill for the wear from HDVs.

apacheguy · Aug 21, 2015

This is just sending the wrong message. CA needs to further incentive EVs if we are to meet the Governor's target, not penalize them. I'm going to write this Senator Beall and express my concerns.

igotzzoom · Aug 22, 2015

FlasherZ said:
That is if you can get 50 mpg out of a Prius, as I tend to get about 25 (gas pedal in "binary mode").

25 mpg in a Prius? That's REALLY bad. I used to be in a carpool with a guy that drove a 3rd-gen like a bat out of hell, and his average seemed to stay around 40.

omgwtfbyobbq · Aug 22, 2015

ItsNotAboutTheMoney said:
Well more sum(f(mileage,weight,road)).

Trucking already pays by weight-mile in OR and a few other states.

They do in CA too. It's just that the weight fees aren't enough to cover the amount of damage done to the road compared to LDVs, which end up subsidizing HDVs because they're relatively inefficient per ton/mile.

Merrill · Aug 22, 2015

ecarfan said:
I have no problem paying increased taxes or fees that go towards building and maintaining roads and infrastructure that everyone can use. I was born and raised in California and still live there. The reality is that good public infrastructure is essential and it is worth paying for.

I'm with you 100% on this with the exception that what ever monies are collected need to go to road repair. As we know from the existing system it is not.

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