Volvo V60 charging at a Supercharger - comments?

OnkelDunkel said:

A fellow Danish Tesla owner took this picture of a Swedish Volvo V60 (seemingly) charging at a supercharger.

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The guy was not very informative and a Google of his company shows that they fiddle with power and generators (http://www.r-teknik.se/index.html). So what are your thoughts? Could it work? Should we tell Tesla? :wink:

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Easy mistake to make I guess. But it definitely will not do anything at all - I hope he didn't wait around long!

European Superchargers use a modified version of the same Mennekes type 2 connector that all the European EVs have, so it will appear to plug in.

However, as I understand it, the modification is in the form of longer connectors for the two heavy DC contacts, which may keep the plug from seating.

Certainly the Volvo won't be able to talk to the Supercharger and initiate a session, which is a good thing since I don't think it can bypass the charger modules and I doubt they can take 400V DC...
Walter

Saghost said:

European Superchargers use a modified version of the same Mennekes type 2 connector that all the European EVs have, so it will appear to plug in.

However, as I understand it, the modification is in the form of longer connectors for the two heavy DC contacts, which may keep the plug from seating.

Certainly the Volvo won't be able to talk to the Supercharger and initiate a session, which is a good thing since I don't think it can bypass the charger modules and I doubt they can take 400V DC...
Walter

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That would normally be the case, UNLESS there's something going on with Tesla's patents and Volvo . . . and that's just the beginning of what might be brewing.

Eventually most manufacturers are going to figure out that it's Tesla's way, or the highway to ruin. The automotive world is undergoing a revolution and only those that figure this out early will survive.

This is a very, very important photo and there will likely be others of similar gravitas for those that can read the tea leaves. Excellent find!

I think folks are reading way to much into this. I'd be willing to bet the guy just did it for the photo-op and no actual charging took place.

Prolly no electrons flowing. If they were though they're clearly violating Tesla's network.

Tesla's supercharger team has been informed of the incident and I hope they respond. They may pull logs and see if charging was occuring. But you are probably right that nothing worked.

But this could be someone trying to reverse engineer the super charger protocol. According to the original danish poster the person in picture was very unwilling to engage in any sort of conversation. This does not mean that there was a nefarious purpose, but doesn't preclude it either.

If I were a dodgy guy doing monkey business I'd make sure to do it at 3 AM and not in broad daylight.

mwulff said:

Tesla's supercharger team has been informed of the incident and I hope they respond. They may pull logs and see if charging was occuring. But you are probably right that nothing worked.

But this could be someone trying to reverse engineer the super charger protocol. According to the original danish poster the person in picture was very unwilling to engage in any sort of conversation. This does not mean that there was a nefarious purpose, but doesn't preclude it either.

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Wow. What crazy speculation.

Clearly this guy just plugged in his car, thinking it would charge, and was then massively embarrassed that he had done something a bit silly (or that he had been caught trying to "steal" electricity, since the Tesla branding and parking restrictions are pretty obvious).

The Volvo V60 PHEV isn't even DC charge capable and you can't very well reverse engineer the protocol without actually observing it (i.e. during a charge). In any case it's already been reverse engineered so why waste your time doing it again - there are threads covering it in great detail on this forum.

Since a European supercharger has the same plug on it as any European public Type 2 charge point (all the long standing rumours about deeper/fatter pins seem to be a myth), it's pretty easy to do this with a Zoe, or i3 or i8 or Audi etron or Volvo PHEV or many other cars. I've seen BMW i3 owners doing the same in the UK - one even swore blind they used the SC every day to "fill up" until I pointed out that their car was not actually charging and they were most likely just running on the Rex the whole time.

And if another car manufacturer was testing supercharger compatibility having licensed the tech they wouldn't be doing it at a public site like this; they'd have their own SC unit at one of their facilities.

Let's see what we have here.

1. A large electric infrastructure company has its logo on the side of a Volvo.

2. The Volvo is plugged into a Supercharger and stays there for a while.

3. The guy doing this isn't talkative.

So we're to think that:

A. Tesla's charger doesn't work so he's just checking to see if the plug fits?

B. Tesla's charger works and he's stealing power?

This is silly. "A.: would have had him plugging in and then leaving right away after testing plug fit. "B." is absurd as I believe there's a "handshake" between Tesla's network and the car (so only authorized Tesla's can use SC's). How does a large-ish corporation plan to steal power while also slathering their logo on the side of their theft device? (Will they be doing this often?)

More likely scenario: in a few weeks or months we'll read of the first (of many) partnerships to expand the SC network for use by other brands . . . .

The network is one of the keys to the success of EV's, and Tesla has the best network, and best tech, by far.

Come on people, it's time to start thinking like Elon!

TSLA Pilot said:

Let's see what we have here.

1. A large electric infrastructure company has its logo on the side of a Volvo.

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My Swedish is not great but R-Teknik appear to be fairly small company who are a maintenance contractor providing scheduled servicing for diesel powered industrial backup generators. Why would they be working on Volvo's next-generation electric powertrain?

I'm sticking with A - he's done a silly thing and is embarrassed that he's been spotted doing it. Or... he's just an idiot.

Perhaps this is the case, but I still think this presents a great "Make or Buy" paradox for other brands. The reality is that no other EV Charge network approaches the functionality, speed, or convenience of Tesla's SCs.

Thus, they can join in and provide funds for more SC's, or try to make their own far less effective and slower networks.

Hubris and pride may result in a few brands doing the latter, but the former is the better choice for both the other brands, and for the overall EV push/fleet changeover.

Regardless, Tesla will power ahead and keep building more SC's with or without other brands on board.

p.s. Any Swedes here that can visit that page and tell us more about the company involved?

I think he thinks that he bought a Tesla...

TSLA Pilot said:

Perhaps this is the case, but I still think this presents a great "Make or Buy" paradox for other brands. The reality is that no other EV Charge network approaches the functionality, speed, or convenience of Tesla's SCs.

Thus, they can join in and provide funds for more SC's, or try to make their own far less effective and slower networks.

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Question: Could Tesla absorb the hit of a lot more cars using SCs without negatively impacting the MS and MX owners wanting to use them?

Answer: Yes.

gizmoboy said:

Question: Could Tesla absorb the hit of a lot more cars using SCs without negatively impacting the MS and MX owners wanting to use them?

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Elon's offered terms for joining include the other parties adding to the network proportionate to their usage, so it'd be a bigger network absorbing those extra cars.

Also, no suitable other cars exist in customer hands right now, so it won't be a sudden influx when it does happen.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Plus, it's a win-win for all parties involved. As more brands join, the number of SC's grows faster as well as they too begin to either fund additional SC installations, or install their own SC's. Obviously, Tesla gets something out of it too as additional SC's help expand the reach and flexibility of Tesla-branded cars, and solidifies the reality: the world is changing. ICE is dying, the sooner the better for all life on our one and only usable planet.

gizmoboy said:

Question: Could Tesla absorb the hit of a lot more cars using SCs without negatively impacting the MS and MX owners wanting to use them?

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As part of adopting Tesla's Supercharger standard, other manufacturers would also have to help build out the network. Hopefully it would be proportional to the amount of cars they would build that are Supercharger enabled. For example, if they build 20,000 Supercharger-enabled cars, they might be expected to build 100 Superchargers.

TSLA Pilot said:

.../ p.s. Any Swedes here that can visit that page and tell us more about the company involved?

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In August of 2014 they had two (!) employees.


Source: R-TEKNIK Aktiebolag - Företagsinformation | allabolag.se


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mgboyes said:

.../ R-Teknik appear to be fairly small company who are a maintenance contractor providing scheduled servicing for diesel powered industrial backup generators. /...

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That sounds about right...


Source: Verksamhet & Status - R-TEKNIK Aktiebolag | allabolag.se

Hmm, this isn't passing the logic test. It's too small a company and the logo is waaaay too big, as if it was intentionally meant to mislead. Perhaps we have a case Tactical Deception:

Definition of the military term tactical deception group

Who owns Volvo? Geely.

But where is Volvo's engineering talent? Sweden.

So we have a huge logo on the side of the Volvo to confuse us and the rest of the world as to what's going on behind the scenes?

As a young company, Geely doesn't have the "pride and hubris" issue, nor the thousands of powertrain engineers with decades of loyal service to the ICE God. So let's posit that Geely would be an excellent first "SC Partner" for Tesla . . . .

I never quite finished my MBA so my logic may not be 100%, but let's roll with it:

Volvo needs a makeover in the global auto market as they've lost mega-market share over the years of Ford's ownership and their continued financial problems. What better brand makeover than to partner with Tesla, the "World's Most Important Automotive Brand?" It's also a great tie-in with Tesla's exemplary safety test performance, AND a win-win for Tesla in China since there's a bit of a slow ramp there, mostly due to lack of charging infrastructure (and China is a huge country with mega-red tape, tape that Geely would help cut).

This is looking better every minute!

Thanks for the excellent research; comments welcome.

Volvo Seeks U.S. Sales Revival With Return to Swedish Roots - Businessweek