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James Anders
Member
I really have to question this conclusion. Could it be that certain people or cultures are more aggressive when it comes to negotiating? With all the PC nonsense today I would just like to see the data.
arondaniel
Il Sessanta Caricato
Yes, information like how to negotiate well matters. Good studies will control for that. Like, send in two people who have the same knowledge and credit score. lo and behold, the woman or minority is offered a worse price, a worse rate, or more unnecessary repairs.
SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
I'm aware this happens, but how do they know it happens? On the form, I don't recall listing my race, ever. And when I worked for AT&T doing credit checks for cell phone plans... there was no where on the form to put "race" or "ethnicity" or "hair color" or anything...
So... did they do it at a human level at the stealerships? I mean, I punch in the info, and the computer tells me if you have to put down a deposit... I can't negotiate it up or down!
One of the thing I love about Tesla is... you order it online. The price is the price. I HATE stealerships. If it was me, my wife, my friend, someone of another race, my dog... It doesn't matter! Long as the check clears, you bought a car! The prices aren't what you'd call 'low', but I really hope the Model 3 continues the trend of 'this is the price', click here to order...
Stealership days are numbered.
So... did they do it at a human level at the stealerships? I mean, I punch in the info, and the computer tells me if you have to put down a deposit... I can't negotiate it up or down!
One of the thing I love about Tesla is... you order it online. The price is the price. I HATE stealerships. If it was me, my wife, my friend, someone of another race, my dog... It doesn't matter! Long as the check clears, you bought a car! The prices aren't what you'd call 'low', but I really hope the Model 3 continues the trend of 'this is the price', click here to order...
Stealership days are numbered.
Insane
Banned
From the name and address that is matched with the government database.. Do you not remember filling up the form sent out by the government every 5 or 10 years ?.
the best thing to do with stuff like this is ignore it
it for social justice warriors by social justice warriors
physicsfita
Member
Just to clarify, the Census Bureau and its employees are prohibited from sharing your personal information, including your name:
Title 13, U.S. Code - History - U.S. Census Bureau
The study was a bit more involved, relying on proxies for ethnicity (e.g., if you have a certain last name, you have a high probability of being a member of a certain ethnic group, if you live in a certain part of town, etc.). This isn't as perfect as the direct correlation method you suggest, but with a large enough sample size and good statistical controls, can be extremely robust.
deonb
Active Member
This isn't from some social justice fringe group. It's the Civil Rights division of the DOJ.
Here's the complaint:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/file/629806/download
It seems the first complaint is about Honda not actually doing the required monitoring, which is why they had to go through proxies in the first place.
How so? Say I sell on eBay with a Buy it Now or Best Offer and I have 10 items. 6 people buy it at my listed price, 4 others submit an offer that's lower, yet acceptable. I've now discriminated? The folks who bought it at the set price wanted it and were happy to pay the price. For whatever reason (less desire, lack of funds, just a haggling spirit), the others decided to try to get it lower and succeeded.
Where is the discrimination?
Dealer salespeople generally consider themselves in the business of "reading" people, the goal of course being to close as many deals as possible at the highest possible prices. Perceived "weaknesses" in the buyer are leveraged to this end. Women, minorities, those who aren't very good with numbers, people in a hurry to buy, young buyers, the elderly, those with bad credit, etc. undoubtedly find themselves on the receiving end of this. I'm not saying every car salesperson undertakes racial profiling or cheats the elderly. But the system, by virtue of the fact that personal negotiation is generally expected, encourages such inequities. And then, once one has dealt with the sales staff, there's the finance manager who is actually another salesperson...
Being able to buy a car without face to face negotiation is a blessing. Tesla isn't unique in offering this, but Tesla's leadership is appreciated. (I purchased our last three vehicles, including the LEAF, at prices that were set before I ever entered the dealership. And dealing with the finance people is easy when you're paying cash and you simply say "no" to anything they try to add to the sale.)
Being able to buy a car without face to face negotiation is a blessing. Tesla isn't unique in offering this, but Tesla's leadership is appreciated. (I purchased our last three vehicles, including the LEAF, at prices that were set before I ever entered the dealership. And dealing with the finance people is easy when you're paying cash and you simply say "no" to anything they try to add to the sale.)
I thought eBay is typically anonymous so you likely can't guess the person's race or gender unless their full name is used. When they are sitting in front of you at the dealership this it is of course more obvious.
The "that's still discrimination!" was in response to someone saying that maybe it comes down to certain cultures negotiating more than others. So it comes down to what the BUYER is doing and not the SELLER.
It's been tested at dealerships with sting operations: sending in a man and a woman (or a white man and a black man) with identical training and identical instructions to "negotiate" for the same car. The bigotry is often extremely obvious. I've even seen hidden-camera evidence.
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Best advice for getting a better deal is to walk out, then come back later with "Well, you see, your competitor is offering this price, but I'll give you a chance to beat it..." The dealers hate this because the commission structure means they get paid very little for people who get a fair deal.
Of course, Tesla doesn't discriminate -- we all pay high markups to support their 25% gross profit margin! :biggrin: I consider it a donation to support the further deployment of electric cars; or an investment in the value of my TSLA stock.
