70D Seems Like Most Efficient Buy For $

70D is,
- 10K cheaper
- More efficient
- Cheaper to insure

.. and 99.99% of the time, it's the same car as 85D or P85D.
IMO the best purchase option right now. Tesla has it mispriced, they could easily charge 5K more for 70D.

You both echoed my justifications for sticking with the 70D. However if money was no object I'd love a P85D...someday.

Travwill, how are you finding the range and performance around Chicago? You're charging at home with a single charger, right?

Temperature & heater/AC seem to play quite a role in the range of the different models ... a 60 mile range difference at 0 with heat on vs a 4 mile range difference at 90 with AC on.

jdw said:

Temperature & heater/AC seem to play quite a role in the range of the different models ... a 60 mile range difference at 0 with heat on vs a 4 mile range difference at 90 with AC on.

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Which is why, imho, every model s should come standard with seat warmers for all seats. Last winter we even used an electric blanket for the kids.

Great information on range ... glad I got a 70D!

andrewket said:

Which is why, imho, every model s should come standard with seat warmers for all seats. Last winter we even used an electric blanket for the kids.

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Yup, sub zero package is a must-have. Auto-pilot, not so much.

vdiv said:

Yup, sub zero package is a must-have. Auto-pilot, not so much.

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What's wrong with Auto-Pilot? TACC is pretty damn good, used it 90% of driving on my last 2 road trips. The auto-high beams come in handy on back roads too. Can't wait for auto-steering (lol, with Tesla time, I'm guessing mid-2016).

So in fair weather, the 70d is pretty much close to the other cars. In cold weather the other cars are better. IMO if you can guarantee yourself never to drive in cold harsh weather then the 70D is the best. However if you ever make those winter trips, i would pay a bit More and get the 85D. Different needs need different solution. Nothing new here.

Is that zero degrees Fahrenheit? That's pretty damn cold. Still 214 miles at 55mph is pretty decent range with 3.5 hours of driving more than I typically want to do anyway with out a break. I have driven my 60 on many sub-freezing winter road trips and the use of cabin heat in extreme cold temps can definitely impact range in a big way. Winter travel requires more range buffer and sometimes more willingness to tolerate lower cabin temps to stretch range (seat heaters definitely help too). Fortunately the supercharger build-out has provided better options for more frequent stops if needed.

No2DinosaurFuel said:

So in fair weather, the 70d is pretty much close to the other cars. In cold weather the other cars are better. IMO if you can guarantee yourself never to drive in cold harsh weather then the 70D is the best. However if you ever make those winter trips, i would pay a bit More and get the 85D. Different needs need different solution. Nothing new here.

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I remember you arguing for hours with loads of math that the 70D will have 50 miles lesser range than 85D. .. so don't say "Nothing new here".

The worst case range difference between 70D and 85D is 49 miles - at 0F with heat blowing with a 100% charge with absolute ideal driving conditions. You have better chances of finding a bikini model who does quantum math for fun. Unless there were superchargers every 25 miles, a 49 range difference isn't going to matter.

As far as "..if you can guarantee yourself never to drive in cold harsh weather.." .. as far as the east coast,

1. Speed limits here are mostly 55mph. At 55mph, 70D's range is pretty much the same as 85D.
2. You don't take very long drives in the middle of winter here for 2 reasons,
- Roads may not be ploughed
- Roads may have huge potholes
- Large trucks own that road in winters, and they don't care about your puny Tesla in the middle of nowhere.

And it rains or snows here every damn week! Long story short, even in an ICE, long distance driving in winter isn't very practical on the east coast. Not saying nobody does it or there are days that you can't do it. But mostly long distance travel in snow is a better choice in summers anyway. You could say that doesn't apply to the DC/NY/Boston corridor, but that is spotted with superchargers anyway, so its a non issue.

As far as in-town driving, in the worst possible conditions, 70D still gives you lets say 150 range. That is far more than enough for all practical purposes.

70D is a pretty damn good purchase for the value concious. Tesla could easily raise 70D by 5K.

kuttakamina said:

I remember you arguing for hours with loads of math that the 70D will have 50 miles lesser range than 85D. .. so don't say "Nothing new here".

As far as "..if you can guarantee yourself never to drive in cold harsh weather.." .. as far as the east coast,

1. Speed limits here are mostly 55mph. At 55mph, 70D's range is pretty much the same as 85D.
2. You don't take very long drives in the middle of winter here for 2 reasons,
- Roads may not be ploughed
- Roads may have huge potholes
- Large trucks own that road in winters, and they don't care about your puny Tesla in the middle of nowhere.

And it rains or snows here every damn week! Long story short, even in an ICE, long distance driving in winter isn't very practical on the east coast.
Not saying nobody does it or there are days that you can't do it. But mostly long distance travel in snow is a better choice in summers anyway.

As far as in-town driving, in the worst possible conditions, 70D still gives you lets say 150 range. That is far more than enough for all practical purposes.

70D is a pretty damn good purchase for the value concious. Tesla could easily raise 70D by 5K.

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You know how you bash the "Tesla Fanboys"? What are you doing here now, being a 70D fanboy?

While No2DinousaurFuel may have been wrong about the 50 mile range delta while he was dissecting the EPA numbers (yes, you can find cases where it's 50miles, but typically it's less), you're doing the exact opposite here.

1. Speed limits here are NOT 55mph, speed limits on 95 outside city limits are 65mph
2. I drive during the winter all the time
-Roads are plowed here as soon as snow hits, come-on.
-Roads STILL have huge potholes and it's summer!
-Huh?


While I love my 70D, I know that all EVs will struggle in the winter. So far I've taken 2 roadtrips in the 70D (DC->NY->DC, 500 miles roundtrip) and (DC->MA->DC 1,000 miles roundtrip), and had 0 range anxiety. Due to the nice weather, we probably averaged 70mph, and at some points (when I knew I'd make it to the next charger) hit 80mph.

In 6 months, I'll let you know how it's doing in the winter on these same trips. I bet I'll be able to make them (0F? seriously? that's what we're comparing here? At least do 32F to be reasonable), just have to charge for an extra 10mins... And if that doesn't work, *gasp* we'll take an ICE. (Speaking of charging, the only time the charging times seemed to take longer is when I was paired with someone...)

Max*, dude! Major roads get ploughed in winter (i.e. I-95). But try driving anywhere slightly out of the ordinary, roads don't get ploughed for a couple of DAYS!
Also, potholes in winters are big enough to swallow your Tesla LOL. Okay you can't argue that road conditions are MUCH worse in winters.

As far as speed limits, when you drive from here to NY, 50% of the road is 55.
But when you drive from SF to LA, 90% of the stretch is 75mph (and everyone does 90-100).

Agree about the 32F though.

Anyway, my whole point was .. "While No2DinousaurFuel may have been wrong about the 50 mile range delta" .. kuttakamina rests his case .. that was my whole point, 70D is maybe 30 mile less range than 85D for MOST practical purposes, not 50.

Sincerely,
70D Fanboy

Maybe it's a MD vs. VA thing, here even our cul-de-sac is plowed the same day (worst case: next day).

"As far as speed limits, when you drive from here to NY, 50% of the road is 55."
That was the first trip I took in Blue. ALL of the turnpike is 65, and that's about 1/2 the trip, lol. MD is mostly 65. VA is 55. I don't remember about DE, I think it's 65, but I could be wrong on this one. SI/Brooklyn is 50.


And lol.

MD vs VA, ploughing, depends where you are.
Potomac vs Great Falls - Potomac is far better when it comes to ploughing (and utility companies fixing downed powerlines).
In Great Falls unless you are closer in you NEED a generator and a 4 wheel drive.

I agree that the 70D is a great value. The value in the 85D is if you keep the car for 15-20 years, after battery degradation, you will still have a 70D or better for kWh storage. A 20 year old 70D will likely be a 58D or so.

Drucifer said:

A 20 year old 70D will likely be a 58D or so.

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Yes but in 20 years President Chelsea Clinton would have banned luxurious cars anyway.

well my numbers up to 50 miles is probably base on no ideal condition for the 70D. Heating, AC, bad weather, etc. It was like 30-40 miles difference on average if I remember correctly assuming 70mph-75mph driving speed. So I still stand by my numbers. 55mph is really unrealistic here in CA. Very few roads are 55mph and even when they are posting 55mph, most cars will be going 65mph+.

Now to answer those who will ask, if you are in drought ridden CA, then you don't have to worry about cold weather. Well to you, I would say, what about the trips to the mountains? The climb will definitely sap your range and the cold weather in the mountains during winter (when I would go for skiing or snow-boarding) doesn't make things any better. So while I can probably get away with a lot of things on the 70D, I will be severely limited when it matters. Also keep in mind, this is not your $30K car where I can realistically trade one in for a new one a fews down the road. This is a $80K+ car (with some of the options) which I don't see myself trading up for quite some time. Getting a compromised car will mean I will always be looking for a way to make the trade up financially sound. With the 85D, I am sure I will not have that problem... not for a long time even if Tesla release a 105D or higher.