Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase ?

[Kevin Sharpe]

When they say it is not their responsibility, they may simply state that they assume no obligation, and may make further investments at their own choosing.

Tom Barnard, Communications director of Nissan GB, said recently - "We can't do infrastructure too. We can only encourage it."

http://twitter.com/#!/TomNissan/stat...55485740752897

I have discussed this with Nissan UK and a number of Nissan dealers and the only person who seems confused about this is you, Norbert.... once again I repeat, Nissan will NOT provide DC Fast charge infrastructure in the UK no matter how much you wish this was the case.

[Norbert]

Tom Barnard, Communications director of Nissan GB, said recently - "We can't do infrastructure too. We can only encourage it."

http://twitter.com/#!/TomNissan/stat...55485740752897

I have discussed this with Nissan UK and a number of Nissan dealers and the only person who seems confused about this is you, Norbert.... once again I repeat, Nissan will NOT provide DC Fast charge infrastructure in the UK no matter how much you wish this was the case.

Well, that's the first really strong argument regarding Nissan you bring up, I didn't know anyone that high at Nissan said that. But it remains to be seen what Nissan will do if no one else will install DC fast chargers. I think they could, if they wanted to, and I still think that they will, if they have to. It also remains to be seen whether Nissan will perhaps switch to Mennekes DC fast charging in Europe, and whether that will change the situation.

I remain with my point that the financing of DC fast chargers should be related to EV purchase, rather than expecting a return of investment from their use, at least until there are really a lot of EVs with fast-charging, and that initially this will be how it will work for Tesla.

Tesla does appear to have such plans (if needed), and you haven't responded to that point yet. Maybe it will mean that Tesla will succeed with DC fast charging, and that Nissan will fail? Who knows.

[Norbert]

IIRC most of this information came from the recent annual shareholder meeting, but also from more informal presentations of Elon Musk. Those statements known to me were discussed on this forum, if you want, I could provide specific pointers.

Andrew, here are the most relevant pointers and a quote each:

From an Elon Musk presentation early 2011, at the Clean Tech Summit 2011:

Charging Infrastructure

At Tesla we do recognize that as a long term thing, and we are developing a high speed charger, which is capable of recharging a battery pack in about 40 minutes or so, and we are going to offer that for free to our customers, we are going to just pick locations on the the major interstates every 100 miles or so, where there is a decent amount of traffic, and just install them for free. If they start to see significant usage, then we might put a card reader on them, or something. I do think that is an important thing to address, hence we are going to address it. And also we are happy to sell those fast chargers to others, if they want to install them in places.

From the general annual (shareholder) meeting June 2011:

Tesla Motors General Annual Meeting

Regarding charging stations, Musk said that Tesla vehicles' extended range means that the company could cover cross-country drives with 13 charging stations. He said eight to 10 stations on each seaboard could cover the U.S. coasts. At an expected investment of about $25,000 per station, "for a couple million dollars you have covered the country," Musk said

[AndrewBissell]

Thanks for these references. I gather from them that there has been a significant change of heart in Tesla regarding charging infrastructure, which is welcome.

[rabar10]

As an aside - it's great to see an online forum 'debate' that stays out of the gutter and ends with each party conceding at least a portion of the other's point. Thanks guys!

[vfx]

13 charge stations?!

Anyone hear whats happening at LAX?

[slcasner]

Some quotes from a friend who works in the EV charger business in the USA:

I think the three phase balance issue may be bogus. Most neighborhoods I've seen only have single phase feeders from the substation out, so the balance is between large numbers of blocks of houses. The only three phase that is common on poles seems to be in industrial or mixed use areas. Changing houses to three phase would be tremendously expensive.
...
Maybe newer subdivisions are different...

The pole behind my house carries all three phases. The transformer that feeds our house connects to two of them, while the next transformer down the line connects to a different pair (one wire in common, of course). That is what I've seen in other neighborhoods around me. This subdivision was built in the 1960's.

[TRON]

The thing is to get a car charged in one hour so that I don't have to stay over night at so much hotels if I drive 10.000 km like I will do from tomorrow on: see Hotels mit 32A Stromtankstellen - Charge hotels - where you can charge your e-car vehicle
I'm very interested if Tesla will use same infrastructure needs to Model S.
Does anyone have a picture of the Model S socket?

[Eberhard]

for a long distance trip, the most important fact is the relation between charging time and driving time. If you do 16h drive and 8h rest, you have to charge 1h for a 2h drive. Running with 120km/h you need 20kW means you have to charge with 44kW = 3phase 63A.
IF you can only charge with 7kW you can only drive with 80km = 10kW. you drive 1h and charge for 1,5h. you can only drive 10h and have to charge for 14h. with 16A = 3,5kW, you can only drive with 60km = 7kW, you drive 1h and charge 2h means 8h drive and 16h charge.
You can really see, speed of charge is limiting your daily traveling distance, not the capacity of the battery pack. Even with only 20kWh instead of 56kWh nothing would change.

[Kevin Sharpe]

But it remains to be seen what Nissan will do if no one else will install DC fast chargers. I think they could, if they wanted to, and I still think that they will, if they have to.

The reality of DC Charging at Nissan Dealers in the UK today...

"Re: First attempt to quick charge fails

Thats just not good enough, that charger has been out of action pretty much the entire time I have owned my Leaf. Actualy, it was faulty before I collected my leaf in March...

Also, last sunday I used the quick charger at WestWay Southampton , and it packed up after 20 seconds. A phone call to the 24 hours onsite response company went unanswered, luckily Phil managed to get it working again by doing a full reset. The good thing was, there was a representative from Nissan UK to witness the entire thing, so i had a bit of a rant!

THESE FAST CHARGERS ARE DISGRACEFUL!!!

AND.....The Podpoints at BestBuy southampton are STILL not working .

One thing I made VERY clear to the Nissan rep, Nissans future in the EV market could live or die by the way it handles its charging infrastructure..."

http://www.leaftalk.co.uk/showthread...ull=1#post9000