I wonder how much those with a plug in hybrid to sell are influencing this?
The Roadster PEM. Essentially there is a three phase charger in it, I guess just the cooling needs to be beefed up to run continuously. But I suspected even 3 PEMs would be less than the weight quoted.Is this question for Zack? I'm not getting the connection. The Model S PEM?
Also, some trips require 5-600 miles driving in a day, I don't see 600-mile batteries being feasible in the next few years.
Many places will also offer only 16A 230V charging, that is 3.6kW and in 10 hours only 36kWh. A depleted 300-mile battery will require at least 9kW charging to fully charge in 10 hours.
for 11kW you need 16A 3-phase. if you look to the lemnet.rg or "drehstromliste" there are a lot of these already available in Europe, most in Germany, Switzerland an Austria. 32A socket are quite rare- and currently you can only one-phase on this.
I wasn't expecting something from BYD to contribute to this discussion, but here it is:
Green Car Congress: BYD reports plug-in fleet test results; rapid charging not diminishing capacity
In total, BYD plug-ins have accumulated more than 1.769 million all-electric miles (2.847 million km) and have seen no diminished range or capacity due to rapid-charging.
For all the talk about fast charge's effect on the battery, keep in mind the bigger the battery, the lesser the effect. On the battery side, all it cares about is the C rate.
For example, if you have a a 25kWh/100 mi pack, then 1C is 25kW (ignoring losses for easy math). If you have a 50kWh/200mi pack, 1C is 50kW. The bigger pack has twice the charging power, but the impact on the battery is the same. In terms of mph, the larger pack is charging at twice the "speed", even though the impact is the same.
Because there are tons of crazy people in this world...
Let's take the extreme that all gas cars were replaced with leafs. Range is 1/4 of the gas equivalent and fast charge time is at least 6 times. Without home charging, and relying solely on gas-station equivalent fast charging, that means 24 times the number of gas pumps replaced with fast charge stations.
Now, the extreme case is obviously not going to happen, but the math works out that for each gas car replaced by a leaf (as an example of a car with small battery) without home charging this is 24x the number of 'refill stations'.
I think we need a new model, not just an adaptation of the existing infrastructure. Standing around in a lousy gas-station environment for a couple of minutes is fine, but not for the 30-45 minutes of a fast charge. Parks, hotels, restaurants seem the logical solution to me (with a selection of charging options).
Each market, and even individual needs within each market, are going to require different solutions. Where I live (Hong Kong), the vast majority of car owners can't do home charging, but I am lucky in that I can.
- Not all gas cars will be replaced with Leafs, that's not a basis for a realistic calculation. Future electric cars will have larger batteries (at decreasing prices) as well as even faster charging. The Model S will already have a 300 mile battery as an option. However the Leaf is already very useable for many.
- We are not talking about locating fast-charging stations in "lousy gas stations" ("motorway rest stops" were your example). They will be mostly at places where you would want to spend some time in any case. "Restaurants" are a much better example.
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