New Noise immediately after 6,500 mile road trip, opinions?

islandbayy · Jun 28, 2015

opinions?
Noise occurs while moving, any speed above 0 and below 20, while applying any type of power. Does not happen in regen, coasting in neutral, or reverse. I can vary the pitch and loudness of the noise by applying more accelerator, and it does not matter the speed, as you can hear in the video.

Opinions? Have you experienced this? Did a west coast road trip last week. Covered climates from Mountain and below freezing temps to desert and 115*F and 6,500+ miles of freeway driving in under 1 1/2 weeks.

EDIT: This is my second drive unit, with about 20,000 miles on it since December.

Hodginator · Jun 28, 2015

Mine made a noise like that shortly before it made a very sad "bolts in a blender" noise. It started at low speed with slight acceleration, then I started hearing it with regen, then all hell broke loose. You should definitely have that checked out.

pgiralt · Jun 28, 2015

Sounds like the "milling sound". Time for a new drive unit.

islandbayy · Jun 28, 2015

My first experience with the Milling sound. Looks like my car has covered almost all failures to this point. All thats left is for my centerconsole screen to go out....

Disappointing

AmpedRealtor · Jun 28, 2015

islandbayy said:
All thats left is for my centerconsole screen to go out.... Disappointing

Well, that happened to me yesterday. I entered my car and was greeted with a "Touch Screen Needs Service" message. It was non-responsive to touch. I rebooted, and everything worked fine. After getting back into my car after my first appointment, the screen froze again. I rebooted on my way to service and it seemed to be working fine afterward. Then the screen went completely blank. Rebooted again and it came back. Service said the logs showed a USB error and asked me if I had anything plugged into the USB ports. By golly, yes! My iPhone 6 Plus. Apparently, iPhones are intermittently causing the 17" screen to lock up for whatever reason. I am on firmware .245, never happened prior to the latest update.

I'm so sorry to hear about your ongoing problems. You were such a great advocate for Tesla when I bought my car in 2013. Death by a thousand cuts is not fun.

I've had three drive unit replacements myself. My last one had a noise similar to yours, audible more from the interior of the car. It occurs primarily in the 0-20 kW band and sounded like electrical buzzing.

Btrflyl8e · Jun 28, 2015

The Samsung Galaxy also renders the touch screen useless, as it tries to connect as an installer via USB. It happened to me twice before I figured it out

JPP · Jun 28, 2015

Btrflyl8e said:
The Samsung Galaxy also renders the touch screen useless, as it tries to connect as an installer via USB. It happened to me twice before I figured it out

You can buy USB isolators that connect between the USB port (on any device) and your charging cable. This disconnects all of the USB connector pins except for power and ground. Makes the USB port a 'dumb' power supply, but also prevents your device (smartphone, etc) from trying to communicate with the USB bus (Model S). Might help. Look for something like this:

Amazon.com: Plugable USB Universal Fast Charge-Only Adapter for Android, Apple iOS, and Windows Mobile Devices: Computers Accessories

supratachophobia · Jun 28, 2015

Hodginator said:
Mine made a noise like that shortly before it made a very sad "bolts in a blender" noise. It started at low speed with slight acceleration, then I started hearing it with regen, then all hell broke loose. You should definitely have that checked out.

Is that the official end game of the some? Just like OP, the sound started out 0-20kw, now it does it higher and louder. It has not done it in regen yet.

The first stage lasted 24k to almost 26k, then the second stage has lasted until 27k plus.

I think a timeline would be super useful, especially considering that the early stages of this noise can be written of as cosmetic by both the SC and those here on TMC.

Stage 1 slight whining from 0-20kw
Stage 2 whining increases in volume and past 20kw
Stage 3 sound develops under regen conditions
Stage 4 bolt in blender sound, complete DU failure

Please feel free to add and / or correct.

Oh, and I should mention that a 2k mile road trip leveled me from stage 1 to stage 2.

David99 · Jun 28, 2015

Yes that's the typical sound from the drive unit. I get it over and over. They replaced my drive unit and it came back. Again and again. They replaced my drive unit after 15k, 30k and 45k. Each time the sound starts faint and only audible at low speed and low power acceleration. Over time it gets louder and is audible at higher speeds and any normal acceleration levels. Regen is quiet, though.
The service center will replace the entire drive unit. They said the sound is cosmetic but once it gets to a certain level they consider it bad enough to replace the drive unit. As long as it's just faint, they call it 'withing Tesla's specs'.

I'm at 52k now and I can hear it coming back again. By the time I have 60k I guess I will have to get yet another drive unit. It will be the 5th then. It's honestly disappointing to have a car that needs a drive unit swap every 15k miles because it gets really noisy.

For some reason I believe long road trips make it worse. But maybe it's just because on long road trips you add a lot of miles in a short time.

AmpedRealtor · Jun 28, 2015

David99 said:
For some reason I believe long road trips make it worse. But maybe it's just because on long road trips you add a lot of miles in a short time.

+1

My last drive unit started getting noisy immediately after completing a 1,500 mile road trip. I had two noises appear - the buzzing under 20 kW and the droning above 70 MPH. It was replaced two months later.

qwk · Jun 28, 2015

Yep, milling sound. Reman drive units are basically ticking time bombs. The 2nd gen drive units seem to do better.

Hodginator · Jun 28, 2015

supratachophobia said:
Is that the official end game of the some? Just like OP, the sound started out 0-20kw, now it does it higher and louder. It has not done it in regen yet.

The first stage lasted 24k to almost 26k, then the second stage has lasted until 27k plus.

I think a timeline would be super useful, especially considering that the early stages of this noise can be written of as cosmetic by both the SC and those here on TMC.

Stage 1 slight whining from 0-20kw
Stage 2 whining increases in volume and past 20kw
Stage 3 sound develops under regen conditions
Stage 4 bolt in blender sound, complete DU failure

Please feel free to add and / or correct.

Oh, and I should mention that a 2k mile road trip leveled me from stage 1 to stage 2.

I'm not exactly sure how many miles I made it between the stages, but what you listed sounds about right. One other item I would add is that I had the notorious "clunk" between slight acceleration and regen. The clunk started first, then I heard the slight whining. I took it in for service and they initially said it was ok, but to monitor it and let them know if it got worse. I want to say I went another 3-4K miles before it got worse and it was literally days before my annual service when the DU failed. Tesla took good care of me as they usually do. If anyone has the clunk or drive whine they should have it checked out just to be safe. Also I would like to note that my drive whine seemed loader than the video that islandbayy posted. That was one of the items that prompted me to call Tesla the second time (right before my service and DU failure).

I hope Tesla has gotten to the bottom of this issue. My current drive unit has about 9-10K on it and I have had zero problems. Hope it stays that way. As I said above, if you have this noise or the clunk have it checked out.

supratachophobia · Jun 28, 2015

Hodginator said:
I'm not exactly sure how many miles I made it between the stages, but what you listed sounds about right. One other item I would add is that I had the notorious "clunk" between slight acceleration and regen. The clunk started first, then I heard the slight whining. I took it in for service and they initially said it was ok, but to monitor it and let them know if it got worse. I want to say I went another 3-4K miles before it got worse and it was literally days before my annual service when the DU failed. Tesla took good care of me as they usually do. If anyone has the clunk or drive whine they should have it checked out just to be safe. Also I would like to note that my drive whine seemed loader than the video that islandbayy posted. That was one of the items that prompted me to call Tesla the second time (right before my service and DU failure).

I hope Tesla has gotten to the bottom of this issue. My current drive unit has about 9-10K on it and I have had zero problems. Hope it stays that way. As I said above, if you have this noise or the clunk have it checked out.

I should have mentioned I had the slight clunk between regen and accel. But it was something loose that was tightened I was told. The half shafts maybe? The two noises were there at the same time and I recall hearing the light clunk/knock first. Wonder if they are related?

David99 · Jun 28, 2015

supratachophobia said:
I should have mentioned I had the slight clunk between regen and accel. But it was something loose that was tightened I was told. The half shafts maybe? The two noises were there at the same time and I recall hearing the light clunk/knock first. Wonder if they are related?

I think these two sounds have very different sources. The buzzing sound isn't the gears or anything mechanical in the drive unit. It comes from the high frequency pulses that are sent to the motor. The inverter is basically like an amplifier that generates high frequency pulses of current to achieve the different power levels. In simple terms, the current is turned on and off at a high frequency. The intervals determine how much power is sent to the motor. This is the most efficient way to achieve variable power levels. In an ideal world we would not hear these pulses. But since each pulse creates a strong magnetic field, anything that isn't perfectly tight and has some iron in it will start to move with these magnetic pulses. The mechanical motion is what makes the pulses now become audible. It's like the hum we hear from transformers.

The clunk sound between driving and regen is the gears not being in perfect contact or too much play between them. That's a completely different issue.

islandbayy · Jun 29, 2015

AmpedRealtor said:
Well, that happened to me yesterday. I entered my car and was greeted with a "Touch Screen Needs Service" message. It was non-responsive to touch. I rebooted, and everything worked fine. After getting back into my car after my first appointment, the screen froze again. I rebooted on my way to service and it seemed to be working fine afterward. Then the screen went completely blank. Rebooted again and it came back. Service said the logs showed a USB error and asked me if I had anything plugged into the USB ports. By golly, yes! My iPhone 6 Plus. Apparently, iPhones are intermittently causing the 17" screen to lock up for whatever reason. I am on firmware .245, never happened prior to the latest update.

I'm so sorry to hear about your ongoing problems. You were such a great advocate for Tesla when I bought my car in 2013. Death by a thousand cuts is not fun.

I've had three drive unit replacements myself. My last one had a noise similar to yours, audible more from the interior of the car. It occurs primarily in the 0-20 kW band and sounded like electrical buzzing.

I'm on the same firmware right now. .245. I haven't had that problem with my iPhone though. I do have a problem, that no matter if my audio is muted or not, after the car is locked and unlocked, when I open the door the music starts playing. It is really getting on my nureves. I now need to turn the volume down to zero so that no sound is heard when I open the doors. That has been going on for 3 firmware "Updates" in the 6.2 category so far.

It's now expanded, sound is heard in the 0-40kw category, and occasionally 0-100kW category .

- - - Updated - - -

After doing 400 miles yesterday, all freeway, the "Milling sound" has progressed into the 0-40kW category, and occasionally up to 100kW. Driving another 200 today, then another 300 Wednesday. I sent that recording to Highland Park SC, they are having tech listen and will get back to me today or tomorrow.

scottm · Jun 29, 2015

I know the motor is AC induction, but I wonder if ferrous parts nearby are getting magnetized in the process, causing ferrous parts to attract or repel knocking themselves out of alignment.

And how do I go about ensuring my replacement is a "2nd gen" motor, if reman's are passe? Is there a 2nd gen rear-only motor for my s85, or does 2nd gen mean the motors that got smaller for D cars?

qwk · Jun 29, 2015

The second gen motors have the same housing, but reengineered guts. If you get a new drive unit, then it's a second gen. Otherwise I think the switchover was serial numbers somewhere in the 35-44k range(on the drive unit).

scottm · Jun 29, 2015

qwk said:
The second gen motors have the same housing, but reengineered guts. If you get a new drive unit, then it's a second gen. Otherwise I think the switchover was serial numbers somewhere in the 35-44k range(on the drive unit).

Hm.. my VIN is 50987 was silent motor when new,
but started making sounds after a long road trip... car has 27000 km on the odo.

Sounds like electric noise from inside the car, like an inverter hum variable pitch in proportion to pedal position started in the 0 - 20kw range on the orange dial... now 0 - 60 or 80

Does not do it on regen

with windows down sound a bit like a jet engine outside the car... and it's louder outside the car than inside.

Ranger did a listen test, and picked it out right away... says bearing related, known issue, no in-field repair kit

Right now, tolerable. Not as nice as being silent. But tolerable.
Gets any louder and I'd be concerned enough to call for a swap.

Alysashley79 · Jun 29, 2015

To the OP: first I feel your pain. I'm 51,000 miles in on my nov 13 build and after going in for a "quick" 4 day visit last week I'm in your boat where the only original thing on my car is the chassis and the touch screen (yep even the seats have or are on order to be swapped out due to failure)

anyhow on to your noise. I had a very similar noise about a month ago. I thought for sure it was the DU (again) but it was actually bad hub assembly's. They replaced both front wheel assemblies and bearings and no more noise. Hmmm...makes me wonder...

AmpedRealtor · Jun 30, 2015

Alysashley79 said:
To the OP: first I feel your pain. I'm 51,000 miles in on my nov 13 build and after going in for a "quick" 4 day visit last week I'm in your boat where the only original thing on my car is the chassis and the touch screen (yep even the seats have or are on order to be swapped out due to failure)

anyhow on to your noise. I had a very similar noise about a month ago. I thought for sure it was the DU (again) but it was actually bad hub assembly's. They replaced both front wheel assemblies and bearings and no more noise. Hmmm...makes me wonder...

Do you have the extended warranty? If so, are you being charged the $200 deductible per repair? I heard Tesla was waiving that.

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