P85D 0 to 60 time WOW (but what about charge levels)?

Don't know about 0-60 times, but sorka has informally published his peak kW numbers at several levels of charge in another thread, which should give you some idea of how acceleration is likely to drop off as SOC declines...

sorka said:

Don't have time to do the charts yet but did several more runs. So far, these are the peaks KWs for each SOC:
90% = 413 KW
89% = 411 KW
81% = 396 KW
70% = 383 KW
66% = 376 KW
60% = 366 KW

Click to expand...

My vbox just arrived yesterday. I'll be repeating 0-60 times at those SOC levels along with the rwhp calcs from the vbox performance tools.

I'm pretty sure that I was able to get somewhere around 3.6 at the 60% SOC.

Ironically the Nissan Leaf tests to less than 1% variation in peak power no matter the charge level. Apparently the limiting factor there is the electric motor not the battery pack.

dhanson865 said:

Ironically the Nissan Leaf tests to less than 1% variation in peak power no matter the charge level. Apparently the limiting factor there is the electric motor not the battery pack.

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Yeah, the motor outputs so little power that even at the lowest SOC there is enough output to handle it.

dhanson865 said:

Ironically the Nissan Leaf tests to less than 1% variation in peak power no matter the charge level. Apparently the limiting factor there is the electric motor not the battery pack.

Click to expand...

....which is why there's less variation in the 85D and even less in the 85 where the limiting factor is the motor until you get down to 20 or 30% and then even on the 85 you'll start to see a reduction. On the P85D it starts declining from 100%.

stopcrazypp said:

Yeah, the motor outputs so little power that even at the lowest SOC there is enough output to handle it.

Click to expand...

Well its a 80 kW (110 hp) electric motor with a 24 kWH battery and the S85D has 422 HP with a 85 kWh battery. Obviously kWh is the wrong metric to compare.

Apparently the Leaf battery pack has no issue with providing 80 kW at low SOC to give the full 110 hp.

If the P85D had the same HP to kW required ratio as the Leaf it'd need 502 kw to have full power. I think its safe to say the motors in the Model S lineup are more efficient but do we have a spec to know the kW required for each motor?

and how much of a drop off is acceptable to the average user between 100% and 20% SOC?

It'll be interesting to see Sorka's numbers when he is done testing. I hope he tests 100%, 50%, and 20% SOC in addition to the upper ranges he is going to do testing in.

- - - Updated - - -

sorka said:

....which is why there's less variation in the 85D and even less in the 85 where the limiting factor is the motor until you get down to 20 or 30% and then even on the 85 you'll start to see a reduction. On the P85D it starts declining from 100%.

Click to expand...

and I wonder if there is a measurable difference on the S60 or S70D?

dhanson865 said:

Ironically the Nissan Leaf tests to less than 1% variation in peak power no matter the charge level. Apparently the limiting factor there is the electric motor not the battery pack.

Click to expand...

Or the AC/DC inverter.

dhanson865 said:

and I wonder if there is a measurable difference on the S60 or S70D?

Click to expand...

I'm also curious to see test results on the S70D.

dhanson865 said:

Well its a 80 kW (110 hp) electric motor with a 24 kWH battery and the S85D has 422 HP with a 85 kWh battery. Obviously kWh is the wrong metric to compare.

Apparently the Leaf battery pack has no issue with providing 80 kW at low SOC to give the full 110 hp.

If the P85D had the same HP to kW required ratio as the Leaf it'd need 502 kw to have full power. I think its safe to say the motors in the Model S lineup are more efficient but do we have a spec to know the kW required for each motor?

Click to expand...

I think you did the math wrong somewhere. 80kW/24kWh is 3.33C. sorka measured 413kW at 90% and 366kW at 60%. That's 4.86C and 4.31C respectively. Obviously Tesla is pushing the battery a lot harder than the Leaf is (Leaf is equivalent to outputting 283kW if you scale by pack size 24kWh vs 85kWh).

stopcrazypp said:

I think you did the math wrong somewhere. 80kW/24kWh is 3.33C. sorka measured 413kW at 90% and 366kW at 60%. That's 4.86C and 4.31C respectively. Obviously Tesla is pushing the battery a lot harder than the Leaf is (Leaf is equivalent to outputting 283kW if you scale by pack size 24kWh vs 85kWh).

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Nope, we are in agreement that the Tesla battery is doing more work. Keep in mind that with no active cooling of the battery pack Nissan probably can't afford to let the motor pull more than 80 KW for fear of thermal buildup in the battery pack. Tesla has better thermal management with active cooling of the battery pack so they can push things harder.

Either the KW required by the leaf motor is less than the battery is capable of and/or the inverter isn't capable of doing more than 80 KW on the Leaf. Either way the 80 KW required by the leaf motor is less than what the battery could do if they upgraded one or more of those parts to give the battery a bit more of a workout and assuming heat isn't an issue.

Maybe we'll learn more when Nissan reveals the 2016 specs with the 30 kWh battery.

For now Nissan tells us exactly the input required by the electric motor in KW, the HP output by that motor if it receives that many KW. Check 2015 Nissan LEAF® Electric Car Specs or wikipedia if you prefer not to deal with the UI of the Nissan website.

Tesla is only telling us the HP output and leaving us to do measurements to reverse the math and try to figure out the KW required for full performance. Or at least if they are telling us the KW required for the motors it isn't on the sales or marketing pages. If you have access to that data please share and then we can do the rest of the math.

dhanson865 said:

For now Nissan tells us exactly the input required by the electric motor in KW, the HP output by that motor if it receives that many KW. Check 2015 Nissan LEAF® Electric Car Specs or wikipedia if you prefer not to deal with the UI of the Nissan website.

Click to expand...

I must be missing something because the 80kW and 107hp number is just a standard unit conversion. Motor input/output doesn't even come into it.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=80kw+to+hp

My previous comment is mainly referring to the 502kW number. I'm not sure where you got that.

stopcrazypp said:

I must be missing something because the 80kW and 107hp number is just a standard unit conversion. Motor input/output doesn't even come into it.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=80kw+to+hp

My previous comment is mainly referring to the 502kW number. I'm not sure where you got that.

Click to expand...

that was math in the form of

if a/b = x/y and we know a, b, and x then y must be...

I just said if the HP to KW ratio for a Tesla required the same number of KW that a Leaf does then we can use that ratio from the advertised HP on the teslamotors.com web page to know the required KW.

You seem to think that it's a fixed ratio from HP to KW so if that is the case we have Teslas word on HP per motor.

S70D 389 HP
S85 362 HP
S85D 422 HP
P85D 221 + 470 = 691 HP

so if you say I can just google convert we get

P85D 515.278611 kilowatts
S85D 314.685346 kilowatts
S85 269.943354 kilowatts
S70D 290.07725 kilowatts

the reason my number didn't match that before is because the Leafs motor is listed as 110 HP in some references and 107 in others. Using both figures with 80 KW gives a wrong conversion factor if there isn't supposed to be any other variables in the math.

So anyway if you really think it takes 515 KW for full HP on a P85D and sorka only got 413 KW on a 90% SOC there is a lot of performance left on the table with that deficit on motor input power.