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Thread: More anti-ev gibberish

  1. #1
    Model S P2681 qwk's Avatar
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    More anti-ev gibberish

    http://community.nasdaq.com/News/201...?storyid=51928

    When will these people actually do some real unbiased research?

  2. #2
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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    I really started to wonder when I read this:
    ...We turn off the clean hydro power ... at night...
    Can that be true? I always assumed that hydroelectric power plants ran 24x7.

    This seems to say so:
    http://www.whyhydropower.com/HydroTour3b.html

  3. #3
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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    More about that author:

    http://seekingalpha.com/author/john-petersen
    http://www.evinsights.com/

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/2335...e-ev-rose-wilt
    ...Disclosure: Author is a former director of Axion Power International (AXPW.OB) and owns a substantial long position in its common stock...
    Last edited by TEG; 2011-01-06 at 04:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member stopcrazypp's Avatar
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    He's consistently been anti-plug-in (not just anti-ev). He doesn't seem to recognize power sources for plug-ins are moving in consistently cleaner directions, while sources for gasoline vehicles are moving consistently dirtier as it gets scarcer. He also doesn't recognize the benefits of moving the tailpipe (local smog, easier control, etc.) Every article he writes is trying to move people away from plug-ins. And I notice all anti-plug-in people assume people who support it are not aware that powerplants have emissions.
    Because there are tons of crazy people in this world...

  5. #5
    Dr. EVS rolosrevenge's Avatar
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    An interesting claim indeed about hydro power. But a simplification at best, it has a lot to do with seasonality, location, amount of wind in the system, and market conditions. In the spring, once the reservoirs are full, the hydro runs 24/7. In the Northwest, the hydro runs 24/7 to meet the load. Another fallacy is that EVs will only charge with coal at night. If the EVs start charging en masse at night, then you will see natural gas generators run at night to meet the additional load. Also, wind is inherently more productive at night, and often needs to be curtailed from a lack of load, which wouldn't be a problem with EV night time charging. He also neglects Vehicle-to-Grid. When my recent paper gets accepted I will email it to him showing that EVs can be charged for 0.01$/kWh and produce millions of dollars of revenue in ancillary services markets (hence his claim of "won't save their owners significant amounts of money" is provably false), which can then replace dirtier ways providing such services. I could go on and on, I do study the power industry and EVs.

    Something else I just noticed. He only has Hydro at 6% of total power output, which is low for what I have seen quoted before. Also in the "I don't think the missing data is relevant" is the wind capacity factor. The numbers say that the Wind has 50% nameplate rating as hydro and if the capacity factor is 30% (the average also from what I have seen), then this data is actually relevant, since it would be more present at night.
    Last edited by rolosrevenge; 2011-01-06 at 06:12 PM.

  6. #6
    Why would you assume hydro plants run 24/7? Only baseload plants do so - nuclear and large coal. Hydro qualifies, in fact, as a peak load producer.
    I see that once again those who have opinions about the grid seldom seem to know very much about it. That includes perhaps the dimmest light in the US Senate, Sen. Max Baucus of Montana, who dedicated a new windmill with the statement that "this will show those oil producers something."
    Sure it will Max. We make less than 1% of our power using oil, and even that amount is rapidly declining.

  7. #7
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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    TheBike45, are you Kent Beuchert???
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...r-Rider-Krider

  8. #8
    Senior Member tdelta1000's Avatar
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    Such misleading information and it can mislead potential EV buyers

  9. #9
    Model S P2681 qwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEG View Post
    TheBike45, are you Kent Beuchert???
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...r-Rider-Krider
    It sure looks that way. Why hide who you are unless you are spreading FUD? These guys think they are so smart, but then they use easily identifyable screen names. LOL

  10. #10
    Senior Member dpeilow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theBike45 View Post
    Why would you assume hydro plants run 24/7? Only baseload plants do so - nuclear and large coal. Hydro qualifies, in fact, as a peak load producer.
    I see that once again those who have opinions about the grid seldom seem to know very much about it.
    Speak for yourself. There are hydro plants that can generate massive amounts of power (>1GW) over a short timescale (pumped storage) and those which generate less - maybe 100kW - constantly from the river flow.

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