85D vs. 60 - wow, the difference is night and day!

I went with a 85 for super charging and range, but after driving a 60, am even more glad I did..

I hope to one day swing a P85D. If I'm going to upgrade, it's going to be all out.

I am sure the P85D guys say the same about the 85D!

jcaspar said:

I am sure the P85D guys say the same about the 85D!

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My P85D is in 85D mode or worse all the time - Sport mode and Range Mode always. I've only ever used Insane mode a couple of times just for the sake of it.

Having owned a 60 for 19 months, I can vouch for how good a car that is. For daily driving, it's just as good as the P85D in many ways. No Model S is inferior; the 60 is also eons ahead of any ICE.

My 60 is great at 65mph on the highway, an 85D is no faster

I can't say I floor it all that often nowadays. Well, some days. But really the 60 is a great car. Insane mode is just too much to do often, your insides start to complain!

I think it largely comes down to senses.

If you're listening to the radio and a really good song comes on what do you do? You turn it up obviously? But, why? Does louder mean better? Apparently because there was that whole loudness wars. Everyone tried to make their music louder than anything else's and this reduced the dynamic range of music, and made music terrible for people who really wanted to experience the subtleties of music.

They simply took something we did naturally and did it themselves to a degree. Commercials did the same sort of thing by blasting our ears out until the FCC put a stop to that.

My point is if you get used to an 85D that is the standard which you'll judge anything else. It doesn't matter if you're talking less than a second from 0-60 difference (the 60 was around 5.1 in real world) and I believe the 85D is at 4.4 or a bit less in the real world. But, if you upgrade to the P85D you'll be at least a second faster so that will be the new standard to judge everything else.

An owner of a P85D has a tricky question to ask themselves. Do they always leave it in Insane mode, or do they leave it for special occasions?

As humans what makes something special is the dynamic range.

The button might be the most important upgrade of an 85D to a P85D.

I swear anytime I talk about a Tesla to a non-owner the only thing they care about is that damn button, and I'm like "No, I don't have that button. I'm sorry.. I'm poor". But, I have valet mode. Does that work?

S4WRXTTCS said:

But, I have valet mode. Does that work?

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Haha. Incidentally, @brianman suggested the other day that all flavors of Model S attending TMC Connect be put in a drag race while in valet mode

S4WRXTTCS said:

An owner of a P85D has a tricky question to ask themselves. Do they always leave it in Insane mode, or do they leave it for special occasions?

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Always on. My foot decides (often) that it's time for insane.

My wife's car is a 60 RWD built over a year ago. My car is an 85D AWD built early 2015. There are a lot of changes beyond just the dual motor and battery size that differentiate these cars, not to mention her car is base (no tech pkg, etc) and mine is basically fully loaded (except sub zero and no NG seats). Every day we drive my wife's 60 to work (we commute together) -- and my 85D is relegated to evenings & weekends.

While I would agree with you that the 85D is night/day difference (I personally much prefer the updates, the driving dynamics with the dual motor, and other factors)-- I don't think the 60 is a "bad car" -- but yes, the wow-factor is less. It is quick, but not OMG-fast. It is solid, but not quite as nimble or light feeling. Still, the lack of power and layout makes it easier for us to drive her car with lower power usage-- making it more economic. For utility purposes the 60 is actually, IMO, the better purchase.

I think the 70D is really a great entry level car, though I have yet to drive one-- as I suspect it offers the lighter feel on the road (thanks to dual motors), and a more respectable range (240) -- but still retains the nice cost point that the 60 once did (only $5k more for 40 more miles and dual motor? yes please!). But yeah... comparing a 60 vs 85D isn't necessarily fair, but hands down the 85D is the "more fun to drive" car.

I've had a 60 loaner on at least one occasion and found it to be just fine. In fact, other than a bit less range, I really couldn't tell much difference between my 85. Now I haven't driven an 85D any appreciable distance, so I could very well sense a difference there.

Has anyone tested interior noise levels of 85 vs 85D?

I'm told dual motor adds some noise, but has anyone tested/proven it?

arijaycomet said:

Still, the lack of power and layout makes it easier for us to drive her car with lower power usage-- making it more economic. For utility purposes the 60 is actually, IMO, the better purchase.

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After 56,000 miles and 2 1/2 years of owning a 60, with many loaner 85's and P85's provided during times of service, I think the above quote really sums it up. The 60 is a great economic use car!

I had a loaner P85 for two days and compared it against my S85. I put some thoughts into the differences between the cars here:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/48153-S85-Classic-vs-P85-Autopilot-Comparison

The 60 has "less" performance than my S85, but it is no slouch!

I had 60 as loaner for a few days including a road trip. The only difference that I can remember clearly was the high speed passing at 70 mph at low SOC. Driving on the highway at 20% SOC trying to go out in left lane and pass some cars at 70-80 mph. In that particular situation it felt sluggish relative to the 85 kwh iterations.

Otherwise I didn't feel a huge performance difference compared to 85 any version. It was still very good at jumping into gaps in traffic and effortlessly leaving everybody behind at the lights in the classic Tesla manner.

My local Tesla store was pretty awesome in that they let me drive them all (except 70D, which wasn't out yet - and ultimately the one I bought). I drove a 60, 85, and 85D over a 1 month period. They offered P85D test-drive as well, but I opted out because I knew I would ruin any chances of saving money if I drove it! lol

I found the 60 and 85 to not be all that different, to my butt-in-seat in city test-driving. Highway was different, the overtaking was effortless in the 85. The 85 clearly was more punchy in turns and had quite a noticeable different acceleration curve than the 60 - but the 85D felt way more aggressive and punchy to me over the 85. I'm sure some of that is AWD, and maybe the 6.1 software update that hit around the time of my test drives. Either way, I ended up preferring the Dual Motor and decided to wait a few months. Then, a week later, the 70D was announced on April 8, and I didn't even think about it and jumped - literally was about the 10th person nationwide to order that day. No looking back, I love the acceleration and handling of the 70D. Of course, I still haven't driven a P85D and and probably won't so that I can keep the love-affair going with my current car. lol

I've driven them all except the 85D and 70D.

My previous car was a Pontiac G8 GT with a 6.0 Liter pushrod V8 (385 lb ft of torque). That car was very powerful. My S60 feels quicker than the G8 did in general so I would not put an ICE in the same class as the S60 still. That said, just last week, I drove a P85+ for the first time. Wow. I didn't think a Model S could be that much quicker than my 60 but that thing is a beast. I couldn't believe it. After driving the P85+ for three days, my 60 now feels slow to me. Crazy.

Don't feel too bad. I drove a P85, and now my 85 feels slow...

My 85 will spin the tires and slide around turns.

I could spin the tires anytime I wanted with the P85! Car was spinning the back wheels, with white smoke EVERYWHERE... just clouds of white smoke. it was awesome lol.

But if I'm going to go through the paces of trading in my baby, it's going to be me going all out.

Yeah, the P85+ I drove broke the rear tires loose when I gunned it while I was going 30mph. The traction control handled it quickly.

Barry said:

My 85D was at the SC today for a 12V battery replacement. They drove out to my residence, loaned me a 60 for the day, then returned my car at the end of the day.

I drove the 60 about 70 miles, on local streets, highway, and a curvy mountain road.
All I can say is if the 60 were my original test drive, I would not have been wowwed, and may not have purchased a Tesla. I'm not performance-crazy (otherwise, I would have opted for a P85D), but to me, the 60 drove very much like an ICE. Or maybe I'm just spoiled now by the 85D. Also, I did notice a significant difference between air and coils.

I don't know how much the 70 differs from the 60 in performance, but do yourself a favor and test-drive both if you're shopping for one.

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Barry, your last comment about the "significant difference" between coils vs air - can you elaborate on that?