S60 CPO without Supercharging?

Wshowell · May 23, 2015

I'm confused a bit by CPO pricing on the 60's. I see many of them without Supercharging being enabled. I understand that 60 owners have to pay extra to enable a Supercharger access but since Tesla is trying to turn a profit on CPO's, why not enable it on all their used inventory and have zero competition from private sales? I assume it's just enabling the VIN and I thought Elon said the network is or will be 100% solar energized or offset, it'd make sense to enable every vehicle and bump the CPO price up slightly. Thoughts?
example:
60 kWh Model S P08331 | Tesla Motors

bonnie · May 23, 2015

I'm sure that's to give people the option of a lower price - you can always pay to have supercharging enabled. Private sales of 60s with enabled supercharging will have that figured into the price. If a car with enabled supercharging didn't make a difference on what a car was worth, people would be upset over having paid for it.

You ARE getting free supercharging for life if you pay to have it enabled on a 60.

travwill · May 23, 2015

Wshowell said:
I'm confused a bit by CPO pricing on the 60's. I see many of them without Supercharging being enabled. I understand that 60 owners have to pay extra to enable a Supercharger access but since Tesla is trying to turn a profit on CPO's, why not enable it on all their used inventory and have zero competition from private sales? I assume it's just enabling the VIN and I thought Elon said the network is or will be 100% solar energized or offset, it'd make sense to enable every vehicle and bump the CPO price up slightly. Thoughts?
example:
60 kWh Model S P08331 | Tesla Motors

Tesla knows that they will get people into the cars at the lower points without supercharging being added by them - and that then they will make another $2500 if you want it to just "flip a switch". They lost $294 million in 2014 ;-) so need all the help they can get. Model X won't solve that. The factory adds to the loss, and Model 3 won't help for a while as well. So hopefully they can run another few years losing maybe a billion, then become profitable to give us confidence they will stay around

Cyclone · May 23, 2015

Even though it may not be listed on the description (many CPOs have items on them not listed, like my dual chargers), it was my understanding that all S60 CPOs are sold with supercharging enabled. Are you basing this off the listing or have you asked the sales team?

S4WRXTTCS · May 23, 2015

It's my understanding that all S60 CPO's are being sold with supercharging enabled.

CPO 60kWh : Supercharging standard even if used car wasn't already enabled

Wshowell · May 23, 2015

Now that (all s60s get enabled) would make sense to me. Can anyone fully confirm this to be the case? Cyclone, I read your post and have followed your threads. That's (getting options you didn't know u were getting) better than finding numerous $100 bills in your new pants pocket! So, why are there so many people on Craigslist, Autotrader, Ebay and even this site that think their S60 is worth more than a better equipped, lower mileage and fully warrantied CPO S85 or P85? Tesla owners and Tesla buyers seem to be extremely educated, intelligent and thoroughly research everything. However, their (private sellers) pricing would indicate they think their S is better than anyone else's S for unbeknownst reasons. The logic is "my $20 bill is so much nicer than any other $20 bill so I'm asking $22 for it..."

Cyclone · May 23, 2015

Don't confuse those who post here only a "for sale" ad and those who are more of the enthusiast-type. Generally speaking, some Tesla buyers are (a) enthusiasts like us; some are (b) luxury buyers coming from MB, BMW, Audi, etc.; some are (c) bleeding edge types; and some are (d) "look at my fancy, posh item" buyers.
- (a) is more educated on Tesla specifically, and research all the available options and details before purchasing. They will have realistic selling prices
- (b) is used to high-end vehicle depreciation and will will have realistic selling prices (though are also accustomed to just trading in too)
- (c) these people are worrisome. If they don't overlap into (a) or (b), they are people who bought were cars were scare, where you had to wait for months and months to get the car, and the car was very novel. Until recently, these people were the ones who may have had to wait like crazy to get the car, or pay above asking from someone else just to get the car. They are unlikely to have realistic prices as they are accustomed to the "seller is king" mentality form when Tesla produced far fewer cars and did not have a CPO program
- (d) these people are also worrisome. They either (i) have enough discretionary spend and don't generally car about money. They are likely to always buy the Sig, P85+, and P85D cars and trade up as soon as the newer, better model is out. They will have decent prices are they are more focused on getting out of their current car more than anything else, regardless of whether it's the most financially prudent move. Or (ii), they stretched to buy the Tesla, having never bought such an expensive car (or only leased beforehand - remember that Tesla personal leases are only about a year old - business only before that) and have completely unrealistic expectations of their cars worth. These people will have their cars sit and languish unless they find other (d) - (ii) people who can't afford new or don't know any better.

And that is my explanation for some of the seller prices you are seeing.

Fiver · May 23, 2015

There have been several CPO S60 sales without supercharging enabled. Why? I don't know but they are on there from time to time. It's odd since all Tesla has to do is flip a switch, but perhaps they are just testing the low price waters.

/edit I will acknowledge the possibility that these cars do in fact have supercharging enabled but are listed on the site without it. As many CPO buyers have discovered "bonus" options on their cars that weren't in the listing when they clicked 'buy'. So who knows..

Cyclone · May 23, 2015

Fiver said:
There have been several CPO S60 sales without supercharging enabled. Why? I don't know but they are on there from time to time. It's odd since all Tesla has to do is flip a switch, but perhaps they are just testing the low price waters.

Again to my question up thread, have you confirmed that a delivered CPO S60 doesn't have Supercharging, or are you simply looking at the options page and seeing if Supercharging-enabled is a listed option? My car came with a CF spoiler and dual chargers, neither were on the features page before I purchased. The doc I received after included the CF spoiler, but dual chargers was a complete surprise at delivery. Drucifer just got his and found out it has an alcantara headliner that wasn't listed. Another poster bough a Sig to find out it has the upgraded P85+ suspension. These are somewhat significant details. Thus, you simply cannot go by the ad as cars are being delivered with extras and why it still remains to be seen if CPO S60 cars would be delivered without Supercharging enabled.

Wshowell · May 23, 2015

Listing only but looking at the OPT link (VIN sourced? options from the CPO Consolidator link) I'm seeing different things like Supercharging that are not in the listing.

- - - Updated - - -

Cyclone said:
Don't confuse those who post here only a "for sale" ad and those who are more of the enthusiast-type. Generally speaking, some Tesla buyers are (a) enthusiasts like us; some are (b) luxury buyers coming from MB, BMW, Audi, etc.; some are (c) bleeding edge types; and some are (d) "look at my fancy, posh item" buyers.
- (a) is more educated on Tesla specifically, and research all the available options and details before purchasing. They will have realistic selling prices
- (b) is used to high-end vehicle depreciation and will will have realistic selling prices (though are also accustomed to just trading in too)
- (c) these people are worrisome. If they don't overlap into (a) or (b), they are people who bought were cars were scare, where you had to wait for months and months to get the car, and the car was very novel. Until recently, these people were the ones who may have had to wait like crazy to get the car, or pay above asking from someone else just to get the car. They are unlikely to have realistic prices as they are accustomed to the "seller is king" mentality form when Tesla produced far fewer cars and did not have a CPO program
- (d) these people are also worrisome. They either (i) have enough discretionary spend and don't generally car about money. They are likely to always buy the Sig, P85+, and P85D cars and trade up as soon as the newer, better model is out. They will have decent prices are they are more focused on getting out of their current car more than anything else, regardless of whether it's the most financially prudent move. Or (ii), they stretched to buy the Tesla, having never bought such an expensive car (or only leased beforehand - remember that Tesla personal leases are only about a year old - business only before that) and have completely unrealistic expectations of their cars worth. These people will have their cars sit and languish unless they find other (d) - (ii) people who can't afford new or don't know any better.

And that is my explanation for some of the seller prices you are seeing.

Nailed it!

Cyclone · May 23, 2015

Wshowell said:
Listing only but looking at the OPT link (VIN sourced? options from the CPO Consolidator link) I'm seeing different things like Supercharging that are not in the listing.

I provided Hank the link to the Options Decoder site that uses the "View Design" link to read the codes and spit out the list. He took the same logic (in essence) with the fields hidden in the HTML of the page. My decoded explicitly spit out No Parce Shelf and Single Chargo on my vehicle, even though I had both at delivery. No spoiler either with that decoder.

Now, don't get me wrong, we also do not have a confirmed case that CPO S60s are coming with Supercharging enabled -- it just makes sense and some reps have said so. Perhaps @lolgas can chime in with his CPO S60 and let us know if the original feature details mentioned if SpC was active or not.

Papafox · May 23, 2015

A similar situation would be 40kwh cars sold through the CPO program. I think in this case that Tesla would upgrade the 40 to a 60 by removing the charging % restriction. Tesla would like to get nearly $10,000 extra simply by upgrading the software and TSLA would really like the owners of 40kwh Model S cars to upgrade to 60kwh. I suspect we'll never see a 40kwh Model S offered as a CPO.

bxr140 · May 24, 2015

Cyclone said:
Don't confuse those who post here only a "for sale" ad and those who are more of the enthusiast-type.

And that is my explanation for some of the seller prices you are seeing.

I think you're making a bit of a mountain. The real catch phrase here is "Don't confuse asking price with selling price."

supratachophobia · May 24, 2015

S4WRXTTCS said:
It's my understanding that all S60 CPO's are being sold with supercharging enabled.

CPO 60kWh : Supercharging standard even if used car wasn't already enabled

This was my understanding as well.

S4WRXTTCS · May 24, 2015

supratachophobia said:
This was my understanding as well.

I should add that I've never seen anything official from Tesla. It wasn't something that concerned me so I didn't fact check it, and now that I look around I can't find anything official.

Overall Tesla's website is currently a mess any way you look at it. The new car configuration has wording that is no longer applicable because of recent changes (the 21inch tires on the P85D, and the headliner change), and when I checked most recently I couldn't find the Top 5 questions answered where they talk about range/speed. When they replaced the 60 with the 70D they failed to update that.

We also know the CPO section isn't always showing the correct options on a car. It also has no way of viewing what the previous owner added to the car. Did they add any kind of paint armor, or clear bra. What type of protection?

Cyclone · May 24, 2015

bxr140 said:
I think you're making a bit of a mountain. The real catch phrase here is "Don't confuse asking price with selling price."

I think you may have mistaken my intent. I am not trying to make a mountain or have any real feeling about it. I was simply providing my opinion on the four types of sellers I see after looking to buy used for a couple months.

TomServo · May 24, 2015

And to complicate matters I see many 85kW cars showing Supercharging Enabled in their description. I thought ALL 85 came with free Supercharging? If so why list it on some and not ALL?

I'm out shopping and right now my budget only gets me a 60kW unless I want a stripped high mileage 85 so I'm paying close attention to the descriptions.

bxr140 · May 24, 2015

TomServo said:
I'm out shopping and right now my budget only gets me a 60kW unless I want a stripped high mileage 85 so I'm paying close attention to the descriptions.

It sounds like you're better off by understanding the permeations of model s options (as best one can without the requisite graduate degree, anyway) and just asking direct questions of the CPO agent.

If it matters, with respect to a tight budget I reccomend you make a serious assessment of your daily usage/mileage/charging situation. You may find that your overall owner experience will be better in a 60 with the options you want rather than a stripped 85.

TomServo · May 25, 2015

bxr140 said:
If it matters, with respect to a tight budget I reccomend you make a serious assessment of your daily usage/mileage/charging situation. You may find that your overall owner experience will be better in a 60 with the options you want rather than a stripped 85.

Actually I'm probably 90% sure my needs are best met by a fully opted 60 than a stripped 85. I base that on 3+ years of Volt ownership. I'm averaging over 92% of my 38K miles driven off the grid and easily charged with a CC LSC-25. My daily commute to work is 22 miles R/T and since I live in a rural and FLAT part of the US I easily get 45 to 50 miles from my 10.3 kW in the Volt. The few long distance trips I will make will be after I retire and have more time to SC. Plus I have carefully mapped my trips with the ev planner web site and see no reason a 60 won't meet my needs.

and yes I have been in contact with the Tesla Store in Chicago and I'm waiting for a Green MS60 to show up. they are anticipating a bunch of off lease vehicles in the next 90 days so I may find what I'm looking for.

Cheers

S60 CPO without Supercharging?

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