"Upgrading" to a bigger battery.

Yes, it should be rather easy I think. The battery pack can be swapped if you want. If the car will automatically learn it? I do think so based on the fact that they are starting with battery swapping.

Am I sure? Nope, but I think most of the logic of the battery is actually in the battery itself.

So far I've not heard of a swap like this actually happening. The only people so far that I'm aware of who have purchased battery packs have done so to use them for other purposes, like me and my off-grid solar project.

While the hardware in the S60 and S85 are pretty much identical aside from the battery, I don't think this is a plug and play thing and would require cooperation with Tesla to make it happen even if you did have the pack.

Levi said:

Actually, I WAS told that it needs a firmware update to "recognize" the battery.
HOWEVER, don't 85s have a bigger motor??....or am I thinking of something else??.....

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The S85 and 60 have the same drive unit (P85 drive unit is different). Firmware revision of the battery must match the firmware revision in the car.

A year or two ago a 60 owner upgraded to an 85--but through Tesla. Tesla performed the work and it had their OK. The key was that the 85 pack was new in that case.

Just call Tesla and they'll let you know. Maybe they'll charge you a reasonable install/firmware update fee, if they can.

Highly doubt it. Given how firmware locked Tesla is about their cars, I don't think they will be open to do this anytime soon. I have so many crazy ideas for side-business of repairing and fixing teslas because it will be incredibly cheap, but given how tesla is, I doubt any of my ideas will fly unless someone can fully hack a tesla and install their own firmware, which might be illegal because you are modifying the computer of a vehicles. Moreover, until there are open source fast charging alternatives widely available like tesla's supercharging stations, once a tesla loses it's ability to supercharge, I say that car is worthless. This tesla can do easily with a removal of the tesla from the supercharging system.

Come to think of it, tesla is in another business all to themselves: Fast EV charging. Quick someone challenge tesla on this! Blink and ChargePoint obviously have inferior tech.

To think, I was pissed off at apple when they locked down their iPhone. But somehow I am OK with Tesla does it. hahah. Maybe it is because tesla are not making huge margins on their product while apple charge 4-5x the cost of manufacturing them.

MikeC said:

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh

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As he notes in that article, Tesla said "no" a few times and eventually called back with a "yes". I haven't heard of a single case since that article of the same happening.

wk057 said:

The S85 and 60 have the same drive unit (P85 drive unit is different). Firmware revision of the battery must match the firmware revision in the car.

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Right, so if you want to do this without Tesla's help you just have to wait until the alarm clock icon appears. Then you should be good to go.

Levi said:

Oh ok. That's what it was, the P85 have a different drive unit.

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And specifically it was reported a different inverter.. but same motor.

Incidentally, I suspect that you can't just swap batteries as long as the firmware versions line up (by waiting for an update or otherwise).

The car's configuration needs to be updated, and AFAIK that requires access to the service screens in the car at a minimum.

apacheguy said:

Right, so if you want to do this without Tesla's help you just have to wait until the alarm clock icon appears. Then you should be good to go.

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That's actually not a terrible idea. If I were trying to do this without Tesla's help, that might be a good place to start. Not sure it'd work though, but would be interesting to see it attempted.

I have looked into this in GREAT DEPTH. The hardware for the 60 and 85 are identical. Difference is just the battery. Software on the other hand, WILL ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE UPDATED BY TESLA. They WILL NOT update the software or "Make a NON-TESLA APPROVED" battery work. I have pushed and pushed for this many times. ONLY way to upgrade, and make it work, is by getting Tesla to approve, AND supply the parts AND do the work, and the cost to do this is ASTRONOMICAL. With the HUGE inventory of Pre-Owned cars coming in, if you have a lower mileage car, your best off trading in. They will under ABSOLUTELY no circumstances activate a second hand pack at this time. And good luck getting Tesla to approve a upgrade. Please, I strongly urge you trust me on this, as of current policies, Do Not Waste Your Time Trying.

islandbayy said:

I have looked into this in GREAT DEPTH. The hardware for the 60 and 85 are identical. Difference is just the battery. Software on the other hand, WILL ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE UPDATED BY TESLA. They WILL NOT update the software or "Make a NON-TESLA APPROVED" battery work. I have pushed and pushed for this many times. ONLY way to upgrade, and make it work, is by getting Tesla to approve, AND supply the parts AND do the work, and the cost to do this is ASTRONOMICAL. With the HUGE inventory of Pre-Owned cars coming in, if you have a lower mileage car, your best off trading in. They will under ABSOLUTELY no circumstances activate a second hand pack at this time. And good luck getting Tesla to approve a upgrade. Please, I strongly urge you trust me on this, as of current policies, Do Not Waste Your Time Trying.

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Hopefully in a few years when the gigafactory is online they will consider allowing battery upgrades as it would be a great revenue stream. There will be other long range electric cars available and if Tesla doesn't have the option of upgrading your old battery, customers might move to another brand. While they might only be selling a $10k-$20k battery instead of an $80k vehicle, it would be easy money as they will have tens or hundreds of thousands of customers looking to upgrade to a higher capacity or replacing a battery that no longer provides a usable range.

If they don't provide the ability to upgrade, I could easily see it becoming a federal mandate to require manufacturers such as Tesla to allow third parties to provide compatible batteries and require the manufacturer to make software changes to support the third party battery. The government requires cell phone companies to support unlocked cell phones. While that's not exactly the same, it's a similar idea. If customers complain about not being able to move their inexpensive cell phone from one service provider to another, you can bet they will really be complaining about not being able to install third party batteries in their cars.

MorrisonHiker said:

Hopefully in a few years when the gigafactory is online they will consider allowing battery upgrades as it would be a great revenue stream. There will be other long range electric cars available and if Tesla doesn't have the option of upgrading your old battery, customers might move to another brand. While they might only be selling a $10k-$20k battery instead of an $80k vehicle, it would be easy money as they will have tens or hundreds of thousands of customers looking to upgrade to a higher capacity or replacing a battery that no longer provides a usable range.

If they don't provide the ability to upgrade, I could easily see it becoming a federal mandate to require manufacturers such as Tesla to allow third parties to provide compatible batteries and require the manufacturer to make software changes to support the third party battery. The government requires cell phone companies to support unlocked cell phones. While that's not exactly the same, it's a similar idea. If customers complain about not being able to move their inexpensive cell phone from one service provider to another, you can bet they will really be complaining about not being able to install third party batteries in their cars.

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I sorta agree with the premise of this. Sooner or later, one way or another an upgrade will be available. It will just take time. My guess, 2019.

Levi said:

By the way, what IS a P120?....did you stack two 60kwh batteries, or something?

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Answering for @islandbayy, back when there was a reservation list for the Model S, Tesla assigned numbers based on your number in line. There were prefixes for Signatures (S), Roadster owners (R) and regular production (P). So, he was the 120th reservation in the production line--P120. I was 1,491 in line, thus P1491. We both were delayed in production, @islandbayy for the 60kWh batch of batteries and me for the MC Red so our VINs are higher.

JohnQ said:

Answering for @islandbayy, back when there was a reservation list for the Model S, Tesla assigned numbers based on your number in line. There were prefixes for Signatures (S), Roadster owners (R) and regular production (P). So, he was the 120th reservation in the production line--P120. I was 1,491 in line, thus P1491. We both were delayed in production, @islandbayy for the 60kWh batch of batteries and me for the MC Red so our VINs are higher.

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They still give numbers like that. The sticker on the lid of my trunk says P73000something. Which I guess means I can drive almost to the moon on a single charge.

I ended up just upgrading from my 60kwh to a p85 CPO.