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Thread: Are you also investing in Tesla?

  1. #31
    Roadster 2.5 #0476 benji4's Avatar
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    The problem with TSLA is really valuation -- with a market valuation of $3.3 billion at its current stock price of around $35 per share, and assuming that they will knock the cover off the ball with the Model S launch in two years, it's still a very pricey stock for the automobile sector. For example, suppose that Tesla can sell 20,000 units of the Model S per year with a pre-tax net profit of $10,000 per vehicle (about a 20% margin -- excellent by any standard). In that case, pre-tax net profit on the Model S program would be $200 million per year, leaving perhaps $130 million after taxes are paid. Assuming zero profit on the Roadster program at that point, the Model S business, executed flawlessly, gives TSLA a price earnings ratio of close to 30x which is very high for an automobile company. I'm not taking into account the drive train business, but even if profits from that are $50 or $60 million per year it won't change the valuation all that much. In addition to the valuation problem even in the case of a perfect Model S launch, TSLA tends to give out lots of stock options to management and employees, a lot of which are probably already in the money. As those options get excercised, the number of shares outstanding will continue to increase driving up valuations further. Perhaps you are looking at a $4 billion dollar market cap then and a higher PER number... also, as the company matures, talented employees are less likely to be happy with lots of stock options which means salaries will rise which puts pressure on profits and further hurts valuations.

    The potential of a buyout by Toyota or other big manufacturer is a wildcard which could present shareholders with a nice exit plan, but that's definately not a given. If Tesla does well in their business, it would be just as well for Toyota to continue partnering with them rather than buying them outright, both because it would be expensive and also because it buying the company could damage it wasting resources at both Toyota and Telsa. Neither company wants to go there I don't think... the other scenario would be that Tesla continues to lose money, is late with the Model S launch or is otherwise unable to make solid profit margins on each vehicle sold, and needs to be bought out in order to continue to operations. In that case, perhaps someone pays $3 billion or less to take it over meaning that at best TSLA is dead money for the next three years while shareholders wait for that scenario to unfold.

    These are precisely the reasons why so much professional money is now shorting the stock as is mentioned in the Bloomberg article. Tesla is a great story and what it's doing is changing the industry permanently as well as doing genuine good for the planet. I would not have bought a Roadster if I did not think so and I am a huge supporter of the company. I'm amazed by the amount of talent they have been able to put together under one roof. However, these great attributes do not unfortunately make TSLA a good investment -- so maybe for now it's better just to buy a car from them and not invest in the stock! With stocks, however, you never know... I could well be wrong, and certainly I hope that I am. I may buy a few shares anyway....
    Last edited by benji4; 12-01-2010 at 06:26 AM.

  2. #32
    Tesla stock is more of a tech stock than an automobile co. stock.

    While it is overvalued, if 65% of the float is short, the stock is much more likely to go up than down in the near term. This is called a short squeeze.

    Going short on Tesla with that many short shares already is financial suicide.

  3. #33
    Roadster 2.5 #0476 benji4's Avatar
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    Yes, it's fair to say that it 'trades' more like a tech stock than an automobile stock -- but what is it really? Kind of a combination of both I guess... certainly they are very high tech, but they make cars and as such they will have to make large investments in plant and equipment. But even it were a pure technology play it's not exactly cheap at a multiple that itself won't occur unless things go very, very well from here on out. I agree though, it would probably not be a good idea to short the stock with so much of the float already shorted.... there are better stocks out there to short, no need playing with fire. I'm just saying that longer term, perhaps this stock is not exactly a screaming buy. That said, I did buy a Roadster from them at least so I'm doing what I can to support the dream! I love the company, but I don't love the stock just quite yet... if there are a few delays in the Model S program, a loss or two bigger than projected, etc. over the next year or so which invariably will be the case, we might see the stock come back down to levels that make it more of a buy.

  4. #34
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    So how long do you guys think TSLA will be struggling? Sounds like it wont be till they release the Bluestar till they'll actually be a thriving company.

    I think the Model S will help them to get to the point to be able to release the bluestar and once they're able to release that EVs will become mainstream.

    I think that Tesla is a risky but good investment because although they'll be struggling for the next few years once they're able to release the bluestar they'll change the entire auto industry.

  5. #35
    ERIC VFX vfx's Avatar
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    Just sold half my stock. That make me zero into it now.

    The world loves to be deceived.


  6. #36
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    Well, there you go. Every day I read some stock expert explain in detail why Tesla will be a bad stock to own. And the stocks go up, and the stocks go down.
    I didn't buy this stock to make a killing in the market. I know some people do. Some people gamble at casinos, too. I didn't buy because I wanted to make a big profit in a month or two.
    I bought it because I believe that electric cars are the future, and I really dislike the current flock of auto mfgs who put out about anything to make you think they are cool. They never cared.
    Tesla has a dream, and it is shared by a lot of people. Some of those buy cars, some stock, some just read blogs, but some of us don't plan to put our money in banks to make the bankers richer and us losers when we can help build a dream.
    Maybe I shouldn't be in Tesla stocks, but it seems to me that that is what drives the market: Dreams, guesses, opinions, prognostications. Nobody knows.
    And I certainly don't have this feeling about GM or Ford, or even Nissan. None of them are game changers. Tesla is. That's where I put my money.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by roblab View Post
    Well, there you go. Every day I read some stock expert explain in detail why Tesla will be a bad stock to own. And the stocks go up, and the stocks go down.
    I didn't buy this stock to make a killing in the market. I know some people do. Some people gamble at casinos, too. I didn't buy because I wanted to make a big profit in a month or two.
    I bought it because I believe that electric cars are the future, and I really dislike the current flock of auto mfgs who put out about anything to make you think they are cool. They never cared.
    Tesla has a dream, and it is shared by a lot of people. Some of those buy cars, some stock, some just read blogs, but some of us don't plan to put our money in banks to make the bankers richer and us losers when we can help build a dream.
    Maybe I shouldn't be in Tesla stocks, but it seems to me that that is what drives the market: Dreams, guesses, opinions, prognostications. Nobody knows.
    And I certainly don't have this feeling about GM or Ford, or even Nissan. None of them are game changers. Tesla is. That's where I put my money.
    Very well said.

  8. #38
    Roadster 919, S 2006 Doug_G's Avatar
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    Real Value of Tesla Motors is the Technology Driving the Electric Vehicle, Not the Fu

    Real Value of Tesla Motors is the Technology Driving the Electric Vehicle, Not the Future Model S Sedan

    http://www.otcequity.com/?p=594

  9. #39
    Senior Member JRP3's Avatar
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    Pretty poor article in general.
    That brings to light the necessity for charging stations if these cars electric cars are to hit mainstream because it is highly unlikely that somebody will pay $50,000 for an electric vehicle that can only be used for trips to the grocery store or picking up the kids from school before plugging them back in at home.
    Even the base Model S will have enough range to do much more than that.
    I still don't see a big future for Tesla's battery system as larger format prismatics continue to improve. Wrangling 6831 individual cells is an impressive feat and keeps bare cell cost low but the pack assembly and battery management issues, climate management and energy it wastes, seems overly complicated for an average passenger vehicle. It makes sense where you need the power and energy density as in the Roadster and S but I'm not sure it's a good fit in most vehicles.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRP3 View Post
    I still don't see a big future for Tesla's battery system as larger format prismatics continue to improve.
    What are the advantages that prismatic batteries have over cylindrical batteries and vice versa?
    Last edited by Fr23shjive; 12-11-2010 at 02:53 PM.

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