Model 3 Trim Levels with competition

That 450 mile range... that will be hard to do.

dirkhh said:

That 450 mile range... that will be hard to do.

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With the 2.5 seconds acceleration. We can assume they model would be a dual motor version with that acceleration so would weigh a little more and take a slight hit on the range.

assuming 290Wh/mi (optimistic) on the highway, we are looking at 130KWh battery for the 450 miles version. Doable but probably not on the Model 3 because this will most likely be only on the Model S. Doing so, will probably canabalize the Model S sales. the 350 mile range sounds more like the high end version of the Model 3.

No2DinosaurFuel said:

assuming 290Wh/mi (optimistic) on the highway, we are looking at 130KWh battery for the 450 miles version. Doable but probably not on the Model 3 because this will most likely be only on the Model S. Doing so, will probably canabalize the Model S sales. the 350 mile range sounds more like the high end version of the Model 3.

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You can easily get 290Wh/mi with the Model S on the highway. I was more assuming 230-240Wh/mi on the highway which would make 450 miles possible with the theoretical 105kWh battery. The reason why I'm saying it will be hard is that I assume that the physical dimension of the battery for the Model 3 will be smaller and that while 105kWh will be available soon for S and X I'm not sure they'll be able to squeeze that into the smaller space of the Model 3.

Kevin Harney said:

Range (HWY): 450

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Using the current Model S configurations as a guide, I would expect this number to be a drop from the Mid Trim -- so more like 300 or 325.

Kevin Harney said:

Since my top trim created some need for this I decided to do the research and see what shook out. So here's my guess.

Size Chart

Dimensions	Model 3	3 Series	A4/5	C Class
Width	73"	73"	73"	72"
Length	185"	184"	182"	187"
Wheel Base	110"	110"	108"	111"

Base Trim Levels

Base Trim Level	Tesla Model 3	BMW 320i	Audi A4	Mercedes C 300
Horsepower	250	180	220	241
0-60 mph	6.0	7.1	6.6	6.2
Top Speed	130	130	130	unlisted
Range (HWY)	250	568	515	612
Price (USD)	$ 35-45K	$ 33-49K	$35-56K	$38-58

Mid Trim Levels

Mid Trim Level	Telsa Model 3	BMW 335i	Audi S4	Mercedes C 400
Horsepower	350	300	333	329
0-60 mph	4.5	5.1	4.9	5.2
Top Speed	155	130	155	unlisted
Range (HWY)	350	505	418	unlisted
Price (USD)	$ 45-65K	$ 44-67K	$ 48-64	$49-67

Top Trim Levels

Top Trim Level	Tesla Model 3	BMW M3	Audi S4 Prestige	Mercedes AMG C63
Horsepower	600	425	333	503
0-60 mph	2.5	3.8	4.9	4.4
Top Speed	165	163	155	155
Range (HWY)	450	416	416	323
Price (USD)	$60-80K	$ 62-87K	$ 48-65K	$ 64-84K

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Always interesting to see what is considered "Base" trim in the US. A Mercedes C 300 is a "Base" trim??? Over here a 300 is more or less top of the line. At least when it comes to Diesels. And even in the gasoline lineup a 300 is quite high up. Our range looks like this:

Diesel:
C 180
C 200
C 220
C 250
C 300

Gasoline:
C 160
C 180
C 200
C 250
C 300
C 400
C 450
C 63 AMG

And even with the 3 series, there is a 316 and 318 below the 320

AustinPowers said:

Always interesting to see what is considered "Base" trim in the US. A Mercedes C 300 is a "Base" trim??? Over here a 300 is more or less top of the line. At least when it comes to Diesels. And even in the gasoline lineup a 300 is quite high up. Our range looks like this:

Diesel:
C 180
C 200
C 220
C 250
C 300

Gasoline:
C 160
C 180
C 200
C 250
C 300
C 400
C 450
C 63 AMG

And even with the 3 series, there is a 316 and 318 below the 320

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However, having the lower base trims in Europe is all about fuel efficiency and high gas prices. Expect a Model 3 to have a fairly powerful motor even in the base, because with a battery big enough to give over 200 miles of range there's no reason not to.

Aren't we having most of this exact discussion in the "Top of the Line" thread?

dirkhh said:

You can easily get 290Wh/mi with the Model S on the highway. I was more assuming 230-240Wh/mi on the highway which would make 450 miles possible with the theoretical 105kWh battery. The reason why I'm saying it will be hard is that I assume that the physical dimension of the battery for the Model 3 will be smaller and that while 105kWh will be available soon for S and X I'm not sure they'll be able to squeeze that into the smaller space of the Model 3.

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I doubt you can get those numbers unless you are going < 55mph on the highway. Most people here are reporting lifetime wh of around 300-400wh/mi for their model S and this is including city driving which is suppose to be more efficient. This means the HWY wh/mi is much higher. Like I said, 290wh/mi is optimistic for a tesla.

Just to throw some math around:

According to wiki,
Tesla Model S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The new 85D gets 106mpge or 34Kwh for every 100 miles driven. Or 340wh/mi. Even if we are optimistic, hence the 290Wh/mi, we get back to the numbers I have. If you argue the Model 3 will have lower drag so it gets better mpge, then lets entertain that number:

129 mpge? This mean it goes 129miles per 33.7Kwh of energy or 260wh/mi. Still higher than your number. To achieve, 230-240Wh/mi, you are looking at 140.6 mpge before you get to that point.

Again for reference, the most efficient EV on HWY right now according to wiki is the BMW i3 at 111mpge. The spark EV is incorrect and if you go to the website, it's really only 109 mpge. Keep in mind, the i3 is a much lighter vehicles because of it's carbon fiber frame and such. @ 111 mpge, you are looking at 303kwh/mi
Plug-in electric vehicles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spark EV real HWY mpge
Gas Mileage of 2015 Chevrolet Spark

IF anything the best I think the model 3 can achieve optimistically will be 120 mpge range which is pretty close to what my numbers are giving.

No2DinosaurFuel said:

I doubt you can get those numbers unless you are going < 55mph on the highway. Most people here are reporting lifetime wh of around 300-400wh/mi for their model S and this is including city driving which is suppose to be more efficient.

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No it isn't. The EPA rates the Model S as 88 MPGe city and 90 MPGe highway. My mostly highway commute averages 290-300wh/mile, but I usually use 330-340 wh/mile around town.

No2DinosaurFuel said:

I doubt you can get those numbers unless you are going < 55mph on the highway. Most people here are reporting lifetime wh of around 300-400wh/mi for their model S and this is including city driving which is suppose to be more efficient. This means the HWY wh/mi is much higher. Like I said, 290wh/mi is optimistic for a tesla.

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Interesting you say that. There are people here reporting below 280Wh/mi lifetime for their cars.
And no, city traffic is defintely NOT more efficient than going 65mph on the highway. On a trip a week and a half ago I averaged 287Wh/mile driving 55-70mph (mostly 65-70) over 96 miles in my P85D. I rarely manage to stay below 320Wh/mile in the city.
Biggest factor is temperature. If it's 70 outside with little wind 290Wh/mile is easy to beat.
Don't believe me? How about believing Tesla. Here's what they claim as range when going 65mph (Driving Range for the Model S family) 85D: 295 miles. The 85kWh gives you about 75kWh of usable energy so that means 254Wh/mile. For the 60 (RIP) they list 215 miles which (at 52kWh usable) gets you 242Wh/mile.

ryanjm said:

Aren't we having most of this exact discussion in the "Top of the Line" thread?

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We are for the most part.

I'm glad at least most people here are able to write the number 3 as that's what Tesla has officially called it at this point. Some people really seem to get a kick out of writing the symbol for some reason

Red Sage said:

Model ≡ [WHISKEY ALPHA GOLF] Specifications

Width 74"
Length 190"
Height 56"
Wheelbase 114"
Curb Weight 3,700 lbs

Model ≡ 60 -- RWD*, 300 HP, 300 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 5.5 seconds, 225-250 miles EPA rated range

Model ≡ 60D -- AWD, 380 HP, 400 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 4.9 seconds, 230-260 miles EPA rated range

Model ≡ 85D -- AWD, 400 HP, 400 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 3.7 seconds, 255-285 miles EPA rated range

Model ≡ 100D -- AWD, 400 HP, 450 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 3.2 seconds, 300-335 miles EPA rated range

Model ≡ P135D -- AWD, 600 HP, 800 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 2.5 seconds, 405-450 miles EPA rated range

* I strongly suspect there will be no single motor, RWD version of Tesla Model ≡ at all.

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Assuming TMC wants to compete with BMW's 3-series at all levels, we can reasonably expect that the Model 3 will be capable of a high 11-sec 1/4 mile time. Also assuming that the Model 3 will be lighter than the Model S, we can also reasonably expect that ~600hp will get us to there, so I think your stats for a "P135D" are on point.

And I'm not sure why you keep referring to it as a Model E (using T≡SLA's font) when it's already been officially stated that it will be known as the Model 3

As I have already pointed out to the moderators and other enthusiasts here, I believe that Tesla Motors will use the '≡' symbol on the back of the Generation III cars themselves.

Please note that when asked, Elon Musk specified the vehicle could be referred to either as '3'or as three horizontal lines -- not Roman numerals.

Since I am not a BMW fan, I would prefer my posts not be confused with the performance version of their 3-Series vehicles.

How to properly write Model 3 - Thanks Elon! - Page 2

Red Sage said:

As I have already pointed out to the moderators and other enthusiasts here, I believe that Tesla Motors will use the '≡' symbol on the back of the Generation III cars themselves.

Please note that when asked, Elon Musk specified the vehicle could be referred to either as '3'or as three horizontal lines -- not Roman numerals.

Since I am not a BMW fan, I would prefer my posts not be confused with the performance version of their 3-Series vehicles.

How to properly write Model 3 - Thanks Elon! - Page 2

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If you write M3, sure there could be confusion. If you write Model 3 I don't see how anyone could confuse that with BMW. Please show where Elon said it could be written with the symbol you love. Why not make that your avatar then every post will include it. How cool would that be?

Red Sage said:

As I have already pointed out to the moderators and other enthusiasts here, I believe that Tesla Motors will use the '≡' symbol on the back of the Generation III cars themselves.

Please note that when asked, Elon Musk specified the vehicle could be referred to either as '3'or as three horizontal lines -- not Roman numerals.

Since I am not a BMW fan, I would prefer my posts not be confused with the performance version of their 3-Series vehicles.

How to properly write Model 3 - Thanks Elon! - Page 2

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If they were ever considering it, I'm sure that seeing how annoyed people on these forums have become about the whole thing has convinced them not to. :wink:

gregincal said:

If they were ever considering it, I'm sure that seeing how annoyed people on these forums have become about the whole thing has convinced them not to. :wink:

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Agree

The horizontal ≡ is just a substitute for the original attempted name of 'E', (which I think Ford has the copyright/trademark, and wouldn't give it to Tesla.) Model S, Model X, Model E. You can re-arrange and get where they were headed with this. I thought it was hilariously brilliant personally.

http://nypost.com/2014/06/03/elon-musk-cant-name-next-tesla-car-model-e-to-spell-s-e-x/