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Q&A with Mike Tinskey, the man behind Ford's electric future

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Zaxxon

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Dec 11, 2012
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The Verge has an interview today with Mike Timskey, Ford's 'Global Director of Vehicle Electrification and Infrastructure.' I found it interesting. There's not a whole lot of new information, but it's a good summary of Ford's current views on alternative-power vehicles. A few quotes:

So speaking of infrastructure, what’s the state of the art with fast charging? Is [fragmentation of standards] a concern for you? Where do you stand on that?Well, if you look at it today, you’re right, there’s a lot of vying for who’s going to have the future standard. You have CHAdeMO, you have Supercharger, and you have combo or SAE, which is all the other automakers. If you were to map out the number of electric vehicles or plug-in vehicles that are going to have each connector, I think you’d quickly find that the combo connector will be the most widely supported. So we’re bullish on that coupler, and we’re fully supporting it.
But what’s happening is something that’s pretty interesting — if you were to rewind a couple years ago, we were talking about battery swapping because you can’t charge the batteries fast enough, and we’re seeing — in fact, we’re even doing an experiment on how fast can we charge. So one of our mobility projects is how quickly can we get energy into a lithium ion battery, and what is the limit of that. And what are the limits of the infrastructure? In other words, what will the utilities allow us to provide during peak times? And frankly, that whole space is moving so quickly that I think that very soon — say, next-generation products — we’re going to see 150 kilowatts. So today, you’ll go out and find a fast charger and it might be 40 kilowatts, maybe 50 kilowatts. I think in the very near future you’re going to see 150 kilowatts. And even some automakers are talking about going further than 150.
On the same connector?
On one connector, yeah. The same connector because it has enough metal to support the higher power. It was really the lithium ion battery at the other end that was the bottleneck. And then the utilities were concerned about drawing that kind of power. So I think what you’re going to see is… I think battery swapping is much, much less likely now. Fast charging is becoming much more fast, high-power. And I think you’re going to see an emergence of these next-generation vehicles become much more capable and then have this fast-charge network that can charge them very quickly so that theoretically the battery electric vehicle doesn’t become a second or third vehicle, it becomes perhaps a primary vehicle.

I’m assuming you have some data on this — I don’t know how much you’re able to share — at what point is the crossover where we’re selling over 50 percent alternative fuel vehicles, hybrids, and electrics? Is that coming soon?We don’t really talk publicly about it, and I think part of it is there’s a lot of unknowns, meaning fuel prices and all the other things. What I can say is, one, if you look at our portfolio over time — so we’ve got what we call the power choice. We’ve got our EcoBoost, which is our downsized, turbocharged, direct injection. Then we have all of our electrification, so that’s battery electrics, plug-in hybrids, and hybrids, and then we have our natural gas and alternative type fuels. If you look at that portfolio over time, one of the biggest factors that we’re going to have to do is recapture braking energy and shut down engines during congestion, lights, start-stop, that kind of thing. So you start adding up where we have to take the product portfolio in the future, electrification is going to be a big element of it.

And when we cross 50 percent? I don’t really know. I can tell you right now we’re only running about 3 or 4 percent electrified products, and that number’s dipped down about a full percentage point since fuel prices have fallen. So we’re still in the early days, but I think we’re going to see an acceleration here in the next couple years. All manufacturers are likely going to embrace it, because it’s in everybody’s toolbox and it’s the right thing to do for fuel economy.

And you talked about battery manufacturing scale. Are you actively bumping into those limits? Gigafactory’s gotten a lot of press over the past year, and obviously it’s a huge constraint for an all-electric vehicle, but is that a problem for you, and if so, how are you addressing it?I can’t really comment directly on Tesla’s strategy, but I would say this: there’s a breakpoint that we all will get if we can collectively get the volumes. So there’s no surprise here that our Focus Electric is using the same cells as the Chevy Volt, we use the same supplier.
A123?
No, it’s called LG Chem. Holland, Michigan is the plant. So, just think about under that scenario, if those volumes grow and that supplier is able to collectively get the volumes, then we all will enjoy the same scale. So what I’m expecting to happen in the industry is, you know, there will be the Tesla strategy — stationary plus vehicle and put it all under one roof and produce a lot of them — and then there’s basically going to be our strategy, which is find the best-priced cell and battery pack that we can and let the supplier get the volume and scale by going across the industry. And I really think that it’s worked for us many times, and that’s how the supply base works, and so I think it’ll be an interesting few years to see how it all pans out, but we’re very confident in our strategy.
 
Well, the good news is that Timskey implicitly acknowledges that the Tesla Supercharger is the leading fast charging system, though it is amusing that he can't use the words "Tesla" and "Supercharger" together.
He pointedly does not specify the Tesla kW charge rate as being the fastest, he only implies it.
 
I thought he was a reasonably candid here but I can't help but shake my head when he talks about fast charging. He's still on that 40/50 kW as current state rather than acknowledging the 120 kW capabilities of, well, certain other vehicles. Also, talking about charging in those terms rather than 1.5C or more is a bit disingenuous. Your safe charge rate is based on three things: battery capability to accept a charge with acceptable degradation, the wiring and connections between the power source and the battery, and what demand charges are economically acceptable. If it's primarily limited by the battery then you either need a larger battery or better chemistry.

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So, leaving up to chance, then?


No, leveraging industry economies of scale rather than single company.
 
I met Timskey a few times before and he's a good guy, overall. He does represent Ford, which explains why he delivered this the way he did. Ford and Detroit, in general, for some odd reason is behind the SAE backed CSS charging protocol. He has to walk a tight line when he speaks about it. Once you talk to all these guys off the record, everyone agrees it is a silly war and that everyone should align under one protocol. I only wish upper management would agree to this and make all of our lives easier. This charging protocol war is even sillier than the VHS vs Betamax fiasco. Again, consumers pay for the consequences on strategic deals. In the meantime, Tesla drivers are happier :)
 
..... In the meantime, Tesla drivers are happier :)

And that is such a salient point.
Tinskey doesn't talk about the better driving experience of electric nor what combination of range plus cost plus ubiquitous fast-charging gets Ford to that 50% pt.
Their strategy is based on some ICE/EV "dial" they turn based on the price of oil.
Looks to me like more market share for Tesla.
 
...and then there’s basically going to be our strategy, which is find the best-priced cell and battery pack that we can and let the supplier get the volume and scale by going across the industry. And I really think that it’s worked for us many times, and that’s how the supply base works...

This has worked for them many times, but never with their core technology: the internal combustion engine. Ford never outsources that, never lets that core technology out of their control. The same is true of most other car makers. They may outsource a lot of stuff, but they keep their own grip on the key component, the engine. The key component of an electric car is the battery. If they think they can simply outsource that from "the supply base", they may find that decision comes back to haunt them somewhere down the road.
 
They may outsource a lot of stuff, but they keep their own grip on the key component, the engine. The key component of an electric car is the battery. If they think they can simply outsource that from "the supply base", they may find that decision comes back to haunt them somewhere down the road.
Agreed. They will be competing against other car companies for a limited supply of batteries. They will not have control over the cost.

By building their own vertically integrated battery factory, Tesla will have a great deal of control over their finished battery pack cost and won't have to rely on anyone else to supply them with batteries. Of course they will be competing for raw materials, but so will all the other battery manufacturers.
 
Most of these companies are in a tough spot. Using old marketing school tricks to get our attention, it can only go so far. When the Ford Focus Electric was introduced, it was nice and Ford played the "we understand" hand and we're doing just like Tesla. And then, nothing. Silence. Crickets. And then came a slew of plug-in hybrids and no mentions of the EV anymore. And this is where these companies are, stuck between the desire to move and investors holding them to the totem pole of short term ROI. That's why none of these traditional carmakers can "catch up" toTesla, out of vision, out of nimbleness, out of culture. They simply don't have it. They are tooled to make gasoline engine and rely on maintenance as a cash flow.

That's why in the meantime we can only be amused when any new electrified car is a Tesla killer. My, what a difference makes a few years, from ignoring, to fighting, to chumming up...