Regenerative Capitalism

Jim MacInnes · Apr 24, 2015

Regenerative Capitalism: How Universal Principles and Patterns Will Shape Our New Economy For the past two years, Capital Institute and its collaborative network have been on an evolutionary learning journey, searching for a path that will lead us beyond our current unsustainable economic system and the finance-dominated ideology that drives it.Fullerton's talk focused on Regenerative Capitalism, a new way of thinking about economics and how we align our free-enterprise system with scientific principles and shared values. Together with Vincent Stanley, Patagonia’s Director of Philosophy and visiting fellow at Yale School of Management, Fullerton discussed how each of us can play a role in catalyzing the development of a Regenerative Economy.

http://cbey.yale.edu/events/regenerative-capitalism-how-universal-principles-and-patterns-will-shape-our-new-economy

Johan · Apr 24, 2015

Very interesting, thanks!

Jim MacInnes · Apr 24, 2015

Norway is already ahead of the curve on this topic.

Johan · Apr 24, 2015

Since this is TMC after all I have to say that I kind of seeing Elon subscribing to much of this vision/thinking. One is the way he runs Tesla: making money here is not the end goal, the money is just a means to a much greater end i.e. the advent of electric transport.

Also, as he has talked about the Mars project:

Elon Musk: Lipstick or a Colony on Mars?

he says, among other things:

"Asked if colonies on Mars will be international or American, Musk said he hopes there will be many colonies on Mars. He favors competition, not cooperation. If governments all must work “in lockstep” as they do with the International Space Station, he said, “things do not go fast.” Instead, he favors “positive” competition like in the Olympics where people compete “hard” but the net result is good."

Jim MacInnes · Apr 24, 2015

Yes, from what I have read of Elon's thinking he is well informed about ecological economics principles and has a very good value set. He first got my attention when I heard an interviewer ask him why all his conference rooms were named after famous physicists. He said "Physics, its the law." BTW, take a look at Figure 5 on page 84 of this report for a comparison between countries. It shows Norway among the best!

TheTalkingMule · Apr 24, 2015

Does Capitalism even work once a society becomes fully sustainable? Doesn't it require a hoard-able energy source at it's base?

Johan · Apr 24, 2015

TheTalkingMule said:
Does Capitalism even work once a society becomes fully sustainable? Doesn't it require a hoard-able energy source at it's base?

You mean like the sun or the entire Universe's energy and matter (energy and matter is the same anyway)? You're not thinking at a large enough scale.

Jim MacInnes · Apr 24, 2015

TheTalkingMule said:
Does Capitalism even work once a society becomes fully sustainable? Doesn't it require a hoard-able energy source at it's base?

energy powers everything and is always needed to at a minimum reverse second law (entropy) costs. But, with zero fuel costs renewable energy becomes much more abundant. The power grid is one of the primary enablers of this technology. the way the power grid works is an excellent example of the benefits provided by systems thinking where the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts. That concept is a lot of what this report is about.

TheTalkingMule · Apr 24, 2015

Johan said:
You mean like the sun or the entire Universe's energy and matter (energy and matter is the same anyway)? You're not thinking at a large enough scale.

Say the US or Germany or China becomes a fully renewable energy society with massive amounts of excess electricity at peak solar hours, something on the order of 400% of demand. Setting aside storage and whatnot, what's the implication to Capitalism if energy is ubiquitous and essentially "free"?

In the long term, why would anyone pay any interest for anything inside such a dynamic? Money represents resources. Resources are for the most part just an outcropping of the energy system. Aren't we inexorably headed toward Star Trek mode once energy cannot be sold inside a utility style model?

Robert.Boston · Apr 24, 2015

Economics is about the allocation of scarce resources. If resources are no longer scarce, then economics and all its trappings (money, etc.) is irrelevant. But a word of caution: a sustainable economy isn't the same as a post-scarcity economy. In a sustainable economy we've figured out how to live within our budget. In a post-scarcity economy, the "budget" is infinitely higher than what we could collectively use.

Energy is not the only scarce resource, however. It's true that abundant energy makes many things easier, but until we have replicator technology and machines that can think more creatively than humans, I think we will still have some things that are valued and scarce.

For those interested in the idea of a post-scarcity world, I commend Iain M. Bank's Culture series. Sci-fi but very well and thoughtfully written.

Jim MacInnes · Apr 24, 2015

Robert.Boston said:
Economics is about the allocation of scarce resources. If resources are no longer scarce, then economics and all its trappings (money, etc.) is irrelevant. But a word of caution: a sustainable economy isn't the same as a post-scarcity economy. In a sustainable economy we've figured out how to live within our budget. In a post-scarcity economy, the "budget" is infinitely higher than what we could collectively use.

Energy is not the only scarce resource, however. It's true that abundant energy makes many things easier, but until we have replicator technology and machines that can think more creatively than humans, I think we will still have some things that are valued and scarce.

For those interested in the idea of a post-scarcity world, I commend Iain M. Bank's Culture series. Sci-fi but very well and thoughtfully written.

Another good reference is Jeremy Rifkin's the Zero Marginal Cost Society: the Internet of things.

- - - Updated - - -

TheTalkingMule said:
Say the US or Germany or China becomes a fully renewable energy society with massive amounts of excess electricity at peak solar hours, something on the order of 400% of demand. Setting aside storage and whatnot, what's the implication to Capitalism if energy is ubiquitous and essentially "free"?

In the long term, why would anyone pay any interest for anything inside such a dynamic? Money represents resources. Resources are for the most part just an outcropping of the energy system. Aren't we inexorably headed toward Star Trek mode once energy cannot be sold inside a utility style model?

Money is just a marker for economic wealth. It has no intrinsic value. It is just paper, it can be be created by printing, or by a keystroke. Nobel Laureate Chemist, Frederich Soddy, made the case in his 1926 book "Wealth, Virtual Wealth and Debt" that true economic wealth is: 1) the ability to control the flows of useful (Low entropic) energy and 2) embodied energy.

omgwtfbyobbq · Apr 24, 2015

TheTalkingMule said:
Say the US or Germany or China becomes a fully renewable energy society with massive amounts of excess electricity at peak solar hours, something on the order of 400% of demand. Setting aside storage and whatnot, what's the implication to Capitalism if energy is ubiquitous and essentially "free"?

In the long term, why would anyone pay any interest for anything inside such a dynamic? Money represents resources. Resources are for the most part just an outcropping of the energy system. Aren't we inexorably headed toward Star Trek mode once energy cannot be sold inside a utility style model?

I don't think energy will ever be free. It'll be less expensive, but it'll still cost something and/or have limitations, like everything else. Plus, capitalism doesn't require that all sectors of an economy be privately controlled and for profit. As long as some are, an economy is still in part capitalist.

Search

Regenerative Capitalism

Jim MacInnes

Member

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!

Jim MacInnes

Member

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!

Jim MacInnes

Member

TheTalkingMule

Distributed Energy Enthusiast

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!

Jim MacInnes

Member

TheTalkingMule

Distributed Energy Enthusiast

Robert.Boston

Model S VIN P01536

Jim MacInnes

Member

omgwtfbyobbq

Active Member

Similar threads