Finally came to peace: 85 it will be, not 70D

Great post. Thanks for this. I'm struggling with this decision too. 70D is such a good value; 85 has been the steadfast go-to vehicle for Tesla for the past 3 years; the 85D has the range and performance for the additional cost though.

AWD vs RWD: This one is tough. I'm in Florida. While we don't have snow, we do have torrential rain - like you probably have never seen. The AWD will really help with that.
70D Range: The 60 wouldn't work. I already crossed that one out months ago. However, the 70D should get us from SC to SC. Plus, I rarely drive more than 200 miles in a day. I've been driving a Volt for the past 4 years and I manage to find just about every public charger in our area, so I could certainly do it with the 70D.

Currently I'm leaning towards the 70D. I can completely deck it out with all the options I want (all of them) and still be within MY WIFE's budget. Isn't it always the case?

I would place my vote for the 70D fully loaded like chriSharek noted. I prefer to have features I don't need rather than need features I don't have. Plus more features ultimately help the resale value if that's important.

Congratulations! Everyone has their own preference and no choice is completely perfect. I'm glad you have come to a satisfactory decision and i'm sure you will enjoy the Model S in the years to come.

Congrats! Also consider a second set of rims with winter tires. Then you might not need the chains.

The 70D is a great option. Although, after two years of ownership of an 85 kWh, I'd have to say you made the right decision. For 90% of my travel, the 70D would be the way to go. But what about 10% of the miles I've put on the car where I take extended road trips. And I guarantee that 70D owners will complain about the infamous SpC taper. The fact is, 70D owners can expect to spend more time charging and less time on the road.

Apacheguy, I suspect that "SpC taper" is a big part of the reason for the jump to 70. Have you seen any info on what the new curve will look like?

If you are already spending $101K+, just cancel the 85D and buy the big dog, the P85D.

AustinP said:

As it may have happened to a few more I placed an order for my 85 on Sunday 5th. Yeah, right, just before the 70 D was made available.
Great way to start: I've been dreaming about ordering a Tesla for two years and finally made it: convinced me & my budget, my wife ( the hardest to convince :tongue placed the order, came to peace and WTF, a 70D shows up, creating big time confusion: did I make the right choice???
I never spent so much time reading and questioning around about that 70D and the 85.
Eventually, I made my choice, 85 it will be.
Here is my reasoning, might help some others, or not. This is so personal indeed.
Anyway, here is my story. When I had convinced my budget that it was ok and I could go for it, I targetted the 85D. Adding all the options I wanted, I came to 101k+.
Next step, was convincing the lady. She did not agree. :scared:
After explaining the budget, she was still not convinced. But understanding this was important to me, she settled for it, but I had to lower my budget. The compromise was to drop the D. We don't have hard winters here, the country is rather flat (some minor hills), and we do travel once a year to the mountain to ski, but so far, chains have helped my FWD car easily. I'm convinced the 85 RWD with chains will be as good. So the D was more a nice to have than a necessity.
But on the other hand, the extra 25 miles, even if looking minor to some, will allow me to travel with less stress, at the speed limit and with the car nicely warm or cool.
Yet, this was not enough for me to be at peace with the 85.
Eventually, the following though confirmed me with my choice: what if the 85 had not been available as a choice at all? This would have meant a 85D with less options, which would have not been a long term good choice. Or a 70D cheaper or with some more option I don't need, but with lesser range.
So for my budget, yes the 85 is my next car.
And I also believe I'll be part of the happy few driving a silver 85 RWD, a car already a classic and that younger generations will fight for in 25 years, when Tesla will be producing millions a year
Anyway, I am so eager to drive that car!

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I feel the same way about my dark blue S85. I could have had the 85D, but I save money and can drive far (vs. 70D) in a classic dark blue car that will be a lot of fun in the future.

I was much further along in the process when the 70D was launched. That said I wouldn't regret getting an 85R. AWD will help you get going when the conditions are slippery, but as many AWD drivers have learned the hard way: it won't help you stop.

I have driven rwd cars for 8 years in all conditions from sunshine, torrential rain and all the way to a bizzard and the lesson I learned was that the tires are what is important. RWD cars with great tires perform as well, if not better (depending on personal definition) than an AWD system.

with 85D i assume you *might* be able to get extra range through updates around managing motors which might not work with RWD 85. We already see a 1sec improvement on 85D and similar might help efficiency too.. just a thought.

I would still vote for the 70D. The range differential is minimal and you won't be charging to 100% every day ... I certainly don't for battery life reasons (I have an S85D). I think if you move forward with the 85, you will feel like you bought an obsolete product by the time you receive it (it may no longer even be available for order by the time you receive it. We all know the S85 is going to be dropped from the product line and it's still only there, hidden as a subtraction option, to clear existing inventory. The simple physics of why dual motors are more efficient on every dimension is undeniable.

AWD is nice even for no-snow California because of the handling. If you are talking about Chains + RWD in place of AWD so you can have a little more range, I'd really reconsider.

- K

I voted for 70D when it launched and after reviewing its capabilities. However, there are just too many instances where I drove my 85 till it had only 20 miles or less left in one day. I think if I had to do it all over again, I'd likely still go with the 85 like OP... Just less room for stress.

I have not got a Tesla as yet (not seen one in Glasgow as yet) but I test drove a P85 last year and the nice chap from Tesla kept shouting at me to keep both hands on the wheel when giving it full throttle (and was coming from a mapped 535d with 700nm) so...... if you can live without extra traction and NEED the speed 85, if not... As like here in Sunny Scotland I would be looking for the additional traction.

I'm at least a couple years from being financially able to order, but I would probably go with the 70D over the 85. It would free up money for a pano roof and next-gen seats and I would still get AWD and Supercharging. I looked at the long-distance trips that I normally take and I don't think the 20-mile hit in estimated range would really hurt me that much. I don't think the 60 would have given me enough range to leave me much of a margin on some trips, especially in the winter, but the 70D is probably just about right for me. I would order one right now if I could.

I went through some of the same decision process the OP did, ordering a 2nd S85 for my wife after almost 2 years driving an S85. In my experience, given our driving style and location (SF Bay Area/NoCA), it was an easier decision to switch her order to a 70D. Better price point, AWD, and the slight drop in range was not an issue (I have range charged once in 2 years). YMMV.

Kendrick said:

I would still vote for the 70D. The range differential is minimal and you won't be charging to 100% every day ... I certainly don't for battery life reasons (I have an S85D). I think if you move forward with the 85, you will feel like you bought an obsolete product by the time you receive it (it may no longer even be available for order by the time you receive it. We all know the S85 is going to be dropped from the product line and it's still only there, hidden as a subtraction option, to clear existing inventory. The simple physics of why dual motors are more efficient on every dimension is undeniable.

AWD is nice even for no-snow California because of the handling. If you are talking about Chains + RWD in place of AWD so you can have a little more range, I'd really reconsider.

- K

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Kendrick, you touched on another good point. The S85 is probably going away. I don't think the 85D is within my price range with all the options I want. I don't want to buy an S85 and have it be obsolete next week! Do I work on the wife and try to reach for the 85D, with more range and performance for the additional 10k?

Almost anyone coming to Tesla for the first time will probably be more than satisfied by the acceleration of ANY model S. Half seconds are splitting hairs and bragging rights for those that need to do that.

My S85 Classic still blows me away every time I press down and need to get somewhere fast. Yes, I've test driven P85D and confirm it's quicker yet for merging, etc, but not enough to make me regret my now nearly obsolete single motor Classic 85. Both of these cars can pick the same spot to merge into flowing traffic and make it just as well and shockingly fast.

I smile knowing I saved the money and get a similar experience. Every other spec'd model S between S85 and P85D performance levels would also be not compelling enough to make me want to switch.

Is the AWD compelling enough to switch? I actually was concerned about getting a RWD car where I live, in the snowy north. But, after driving a winter can confirm that Tesla traction features on rear wheel drive cars alone delivers steady and true tracking experience on snow and ice that is BETTER than my other car - a SUBARU!

It's not about how fast in relation to other model S, it's about comparing to other types of cars on the road. I never come across other model S in my daily life, except on special occasions and meet ups, or at a charging stations. On my commute, I know I can out-manoeuvre or pass or merge and do anything requiring speed better than ANY other vehicle commonly encountered. Anything else I see out my windshield or rear view mirror, is second, even to the "lowly" S85.

Top speed does not matter to me any more. I have never tested top speed of my S and probably never will, and don't really care. Once I tested top speed in a car on the salt flats. Got it out of my system. Scared the **** out of me...

I picked the 85 over 60 because these are electric cars, and the most defining constraint and risk for electric cars is range. S85 was the highest ranging choice at order time and time of delivery. There were no superchargers in my province and I didn't want to take the chance of having to depend on them. So the choice was easy for me: buy highest range.

With battery technology enhancements, I figured by the time the first pack is worn out, I'd be upgrading to a battery of more range yet. Witness the Roadster's bump in range.

So, today, if I was to do it all over again, which puts me in your boots... I would buy the S85 over the 70D while it's still available. I'd be forced to buy 85D, when they discontinued single engine models, and I'd do that over the 70D.

I have a P85+, which went out of production perhaps a month after delivery. I guess I now have a rare classic, as I got the Autopilot hdwre, thank goodness. I bought it for the range, the boy racer in me and the ridiculous tires and suspension upgrades that I love, but hate paying for (!). At first I was pissed with the rapid upgrade cycle. But I soon realized that I bought exactly what I wanted with everything I wanted added and nothing more. So I am still, after all these new model intros after only 7 months of ownership, completely satisfied. The car is exactly what I wanted. And with Autopilot, which was a complete surprise, so much more. But I must admit to being slightly annoyed by being blindsided with no advance warning. But I am over it. Would I have waited? I honestly do not know.

This has been a great thread for me to read, since my car car is now obsolete, or perhaps one day a collectors item....

I really wanted RWD, living in CA. And now my car is the most powerful RWD from the line up. I wanted it for the fun after owning fast AWDs for years and years. I love slipping out the rear end on rare occasions. But it really is a folly. I don't drive like that all the time by any means. I rarely get too showy because I want to be courteous all the time on the road. I know it's dumb, but I like having the ability to do it when I want. Like passing that dreaded Prius hypermiling in the left lane and refusing to allow me to go the speed limit. SO inconsiderate. So I do love that I can zip right around them in 1.5 sec. And to be honest, it has been a boyhood dream to buy a car like this and I have finally been able to realize that dream. For the first time in my life, I don't drool over any other car or feel like mine could be better.

I was at the factory yesterday for a quick top off and met a great guy with a P85D and he offered me a launch. I had not gotten one yet and was very curious as to the difference from my monster. It was awesome to say the least. I felt like my eyeballs shifted back about an inch and I loved it. But in total honesty, I simply do not drive like that unless I am showing my friends, who are dying of curiosity.

So I guess the net-net for me is, while it is fun and novel to freak people about about these new ultra super power cars, I simply do not do that in daily life. I use it when acceleration can be a safety issue or when I need a quick overpassing. I love the incredibly low operating cost and ownership over the long term, the beauty and finesse of this piece of moving art, the tech (of course) and the sheer enjoyment of owning a car that hopefully will wake up our planet to the fact that we need to change.

I think this purchase experience has taught me that I do not need the absolute newest, best and most powerful thing on the road. I always thought that I did. Such a first world and spoiled person's problem! I just need what meets my needs and desires. And this car fits the bill to the tee.

And she is lovely!!

I have really appreciated everyone's comments here. However I don't know if I'm any closer to making my decision! I am test driving the 70D in a couple days. I figure I would start with that and if it's fast enough I'll just deck that one out completely with all the options I want and enjoy it.

I've been driving a Volt for the last 4 years. I have gotten extremely good at finding charging stations and topping off wherever I can - I've even got a charging station installed at my work. So I am NOT as concerned with the range on a local level. However, from everything I've read here I may end up taking longer trips with this amazing car! That may have me more concerned about range.