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Estimated gas savings

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brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,620
3,227
I've seen some discussion in various threads about the (un)desirability of including "estimated gas savings" in the Order (my.teslamotors.com/models/design) page but what I haven't seen discussed is the actual number.

- $10,000
Estimated gas savings over 5 years

Gasoline Savings
Electric vehicles are less expensive to fuel than gas powered vehicles. The average person drives between
10,000 and 15,000 miles and spends between $2,000 and $3,000 on gasoline per year. In comparison, the cost
of electricity to power Model S over the same distance is five times lower. Over the five year length of
car ownership, that's between $8,000 and $12,000 in gasoline savings.

Two questions:
1. Why are they talking about 5 years when the warranties are 4 and 8 years?
2. Shouldn't the "savings" vary by model/configuration due to the efficiency differences?

EPA rateEPA rangeBattery capacityConfiguration
3.42 mi/kWh240 mi70 kWh70D
3.12 mi/kWh265 mi85 kWh85
3.18 mi/kWh270 mi85 kWh85D
2.98 mi/kWh253 mi85 kWhP85D

If you use the P85D as the baseline, then the value for 70D should arguably be...
$10,000 * 3.42 / 2.98 = $11,476

That's a 15% additional savings. No?


Edit:
Actually the equation is a bit more complicated...

In comparison, the cost of electricity to power Model S over the same distance is five times lower
Let's assume they really meant "one fifth of the cost" because "5 times lower" is at best confusing language.

P85D
2.98 mi/kWh
335.97 Wh/mi
$10,000 savings
$10,000 / (4/5) = $12,500 gasoline cost (equivalent)
$10,000 / (1/5) = $2,500 electricity cost

70D
3.42 mi/kWh
259.26 Wh/mi
$2,500 * (259.26 / 335.97) = $1,929 electricity cost
$12,500 - $1,929 = $10,571 savings

So 5.7% additional savings.
Still pretty significant, IMO.
 
Last edited:
Good points.
I think the general discussion in those threads isn't getting down to the nitty gritty numbers. It is focusing on how unethical or just not good pricing practice it is to include the gas savings.

By your points, I should save $16000 over 8 yrs since the battery will last 8 years. I think they picked 5 years since people usually sell their car after 5 years (or for those that had a classic S, sometimes less than one year (to get the D ).

My guess is Tesla likes nice round numbers, so 10k is an easy number to remember.
 
This whole thing is just garbage.
Savings compared to which car? Which has which MPG? Based on how many miles driven per year?
Let's take myself. I had already reserved a BMW 328d when I changed my mind and bought a Tesla. I drove 8k miles a year (I'm driving a lot more in my Tesla(s) - it's just way more fun to drive). How is that going to get me $10k savings?
People tend to get ~40mpg with the 328d. So 8k miles turns into 200 gallons of diesel or (at current price of about $2.40 per gallon here in Portland) annual spending of $480.
8k miles @ 3.1 mi/kWh gets me about 2580 kWh assuming no charging loss and assuming that I normally charge at home at 11 cents per kWh gets me $283 in electricity cost.
So I'd claim I'm saving $200 a year. Or $1k in Tesla's magic 5 years.

$10k? In your dreams, Elon.

And yes, I realize these are not cars that most people would compare. But since Tesla doesn't tell me what they are comparing to, I'm comparing the Model S to the car I would have otherwise bought.
 
This whole thing is just garbage.
Savings compared to which car? Which has which MPG? Based on how many miles driven per year?
Let's take myself. I had already reserved a BMW 328d when I changed my mind and bought a Tesla. I drove 8k miles a year (I'm driving a lot more in my Tesla(s) - it's just way more fun to drive). How is that going to get me $10k savings?
People tend to get ~40mpg with the 328d. So 8k miles turns into 200 gallons of diesel or (at current price of about $2.40 per gallon here in Portland) annual spending of $480.
8k miles @ 3.1 mi/kWh gets me about 2580 kWh assuming no charging loss and assuming that I normally charge at home at 11 cents per kWh gets me $283 in electricity cost.
So I'd claim I'm saving $200 a year. Or $1k in Tesla's magic 5 years.

$10k? In your dreams, Elon.

And yes, I realize these are not cars that most people would compare. But since Tesla doesn't tell me what they are comparing to, I'm comparing the Model S to the car I would have otherwise bought.
I am driving 25,000 miles per year and in March of next year when I expect to have my Model X I will have driven 75,000 miles. Sixty nine percent of the miles (69%) have been on trips and comparing it to my previous two Lexus vehicles getting 25 mpg I am saving about $3,300/year on gas or about 10k for the three year period.
Of course I didn't buy the Tesla to save gas but it is a nice side benefit.
 
This whole thing is just garbage.
Savings compared to which car? Which has which MPG? Based on how many miles driven per year?
Let's take myself. I had already reserved a BMW 328d when I changed my mind and bought a Tesla. I drove 8k miles a year (I'm driving a lot more in my Tesla(s) - it's just way more fun to drive). How is that going to get me $10k savings?
People tend to get ~40mpg with the 328d. So 8k miles turns into 200 gallons of diesel or (at current price of about $2.40 per gallon here in Portland) annual spending of $480.
8k miles @ 3.1 mi/kWh gets me about 2580 kWh assuming no charging loss and assuming that I normally charge at home at 11 cents per kWh gets me $283 in electricity cost.
So I'd claim I'm saving $200 a year. Or $1k in Tesla's magic 5 years.

$10k? In your dreams, Elon.

And yes, I realize these are not cars that most people would compare. But since Tesla doesn't tell me what they are comparing to, I'm comparing the Model S to the car I would have otherwise bought.

They could and should do better, but I don't have an issue with the concept of including the savings.

For example, my math included the previous car getting 14mpg, paying $1.40/liter, driving 10k miles per year, and TOU electricity night time rates being the same fully loaded 11c/kWh, so my savings are more in the $3-4k range per year.

Average new cars are around 25mpg, rather than 40mpg; average travel is probably more than 8k miles/year, so I can see Tesla math working out. Putting a round $10k is reasonable, but there should be a fine print saying "assuming X mpg, Y miles/year, cost of gasoline, electricity, etc." based on some national average.

As it is, Canada is showing less savings than US, ($10k CAD ~ $8k USD vs $10k USD) even though gasoline is more expensive up here, new car sales average better mpg and electricity is cheaper.
 
This whole thing is just garbage.
Savings compared to which car? Which has which MPG? Based on how many miles driven per year?
Let's take myself. I had already reserved a BMW 328d when I changed my mind and bought a Tesla. I drove 8k miles a year (I'm driving a lot more in my Tesla(s) - it's just way more fun to drive). How is that going to get me $10k savings?
People tend to get ~40mpg with the 328d. So 8k miles turns into 200 gallons of diesel or (at current price of about $2.40 per gallon here in Portland) annual spending of $480.
8k miles @ 3.1 mi/kWh gets me about 2580 kWh assuming no charging loss and assuming that I normally charge at home at 11 cents per kWh gets me $283 in electricity cost.
So I'd claim I'm saving $200 a year. Or $1k in Tesla's magic 5 years.

$10k? In your dreams, Elon.

And yes, I realize these are not cars that most people would compare. But since Tesla doesn't tell me what they are comparing to, I'm comparing the Model S to the car I would have otherwise bought.

I agree. I'm a huge Tesla fan. However, this would be far more palatable as a calculator where you plug in the mpg of the ICE you want to compare to, your assumption of gasoline prices, and the timeframe you want to use for the comparison. To be clear this calculator would not be the most prominent display of the car's cost.

I actually suspected from the start that Tesla intentionally crossed the line a bit to try to spur some media coverage of it as a sketchy decision, and in the process spread awareness that the cost of ownership is about that of the Mercedes E Class, or BMW 5 series (free advertising).
 
I agree. I'm a huge Tesla fan. However, this would be far more palatable as a calculator where you plug in the mpg of the ICE you want to compare to, your assumption of gasoline prices, and the timeframe you want to use for the comparison. To be clear this calculator would not be the most prominent display of the car's cost.

I actually suspected from the start that Tesla intentionally crossed the line a bit to try to spur some media coverage of it as a sketchy decision, and in the process spread awareness that the cost of ownership is about that of the Mercedes E Class, or BMW 5 series (free advertising).

This is what I think as well. There are so many variables that the 10k number is just meaningless. I plan on having my car at least 7 years and I drive 25k miles per year. Over that time period. I calculated I'll easily save $30k in fuel compared to my previous car which was really the only way I could justify spending so much on the car in the first place. They should use the gas savings to their advantage by allowing users to put real numbers into there and get the TCO price based on how long they plan to keep the car. I really don't like how they just put that $10k in there.
 
The text below that which is quoted says the base assumptions -

We've assumed a fuel economy of 20 miles per gallon for a comparable gasoline powered sedan. We've also assumed the national average of $0.12 per kilowatt hour for electricity. 10% charging on Tesla's Supercharger network enabling free long distance travel and $3.90 for premium gasoline over the next 5 years.
 
This is an important issue for Tesla going forward...I think they should be working some computer models now, to come up with an easy and credible way to show benchmark (EV energy) savings vs. the Gen II's ICE competitors...it needs to simply explain the numbers differences to be an effective / compelling sales tool...

A Tesla might pay for itself in just a few years with mileage like that.
 
A Tesla might pay for itself in just a few years with mileage like that.

If it's just a few years for him then it should just be a couple years for us :tongue:

WillAustin You'll greatly enjoy this car I promise. High-mileage owners like us are in unique circumstances. No joke a couple months ago we calculated how much gas we would have spent that month if we hadn't had our Tesla and it was literally more than half of our car payment. You should've seen our smiles that day :biggrin:
 
I currently spend thousands annually on gas. I put 20K-25K miles/year on my cars.

A Tesla might pay for itself in just a few years with mileage like that.

By my calculations somewhere around 400-500k miles the Tesla will have completely paid for itself through gas, toll, and maintenance savings. I'm at 66k miles and have saved around $16-17k already.
 
Unfortunately no fuel savings for me, 20KM/year, cost of fuel: Tesla - $800, Civic NG - $760.

And anyone who is replacing a Prius or other good mileage car may be in a similar position. The issue isn't if you will save money on gas or how much you save but that Tesla should show the full cost followed by savings.
Anything else is simply very misleading and tarnishes Tesla's image especially for someone who is not familiar with Tesla.
 
To state the obvious and keep it simple: 200,000 miles @ 25mpg @ $4/gallon = $32,000.

Number to be adjusted by home charging costs (10%-20% depending on home/SC mileage split and cost of electricity), actual mileage of ICE being compared, and higher/lower average cost of premium gasoline over the period. In most cases, at least half of that will be achieved.
 
You guys in the US make us in the UK and Europe cry with your gas prices for $4 and less.
We get gas prices more like $9 although it has reduced a bit now to $7.5-$8

Best thing about that is it does make the Tesla maths much easier especially when you do 25K miles/yr :)

Add in the 8yr drivetrain warranty and happy motoring ... well when the delivery wait is over anyway.