Tesla just changed the competitive landscape (vs Audi/Mercedes/BMW AWD Grand Coupes).

commasign · Apr 8, 2015

As a followup to my previous thread (P85D is a good value (versus Audi RS7, BMW M6 GC, and Mercedes CLS63 AMG)), here are the updated comparisons of the Tesla Model S (with the latest specs) against its competitors from Audi, Mercedes, and BMW at all 3 price/performance points. It's still not a perfect comparison as the standard features vary (leather, sunroof, driver safety, etc.,), but the inclusion of AWD and much of the the previous tech package (navigation, homelink, keyless entry, etc.,) makes for a better comparison than before with the base 60 and base 85 models.

This is just an "on paper" comparison, arguably biased in favor of Tesla (this is a Tesla forum, remember?). I know people feel very strongly about fit and finish, cowhide everywhere, billions of buttons, quarter mile, engine roar, etc., :wink:

Entry

	Tesla Model S 70D	Audi A7 quattro	Mercedes CLS400 4MATIC	BMW 640i xDrive Gran Coupe
Horsepower	329HP	333HP	329HP	315HP
0-60mph	5.2s	5.6s	5.5s	5.2s
Top Speed	140mph	130mph	155mph	130mph
MPG/MPGe (city/hwy/combined)	101/102/101 MPGe	18/28/21 MPG	19/26/22 MPG	20/29/23 MPG
Price	$75,000 ($65,000 after incentives)	$68,300	$68,490	$81,800

Middle

	Tesla Model S 85D	Audi S7 quattro	Mercedes CS550 4MATIC	BMW 650i xDrive Gran Coupe
Horsepower	422HP	450HP	402HP	445HP
0-60mph	4.4s	4.5s	5.1s	4.3s
Top Speed	155MPH	155MPH	155MPH	155MPH
MPG/MPGe (city/hwy/combined)	95/106/100 MPGe	17/27/20	17/24/19	16/24/19
Price	$85,000 ($75,000 after incentives)	$82,900	$75,700	$93,100

Top

	Tesla Model S P85D	Audi RS7	Mercedes CLS63 AMG	BMW M6 Gran Coupe
Horsepower	691HP	560HP	577HP	560HP
0-60mph	3.1s	3.7s	3.6s	4.1s
Top Speed	155MPH	174MPH	186MPH	155MPH
MPG/MPGe (city/hwy/combined)	89/98/93 MPGe	16/27/19 MPG	16/22/18 MPG	14/20/16 MPG
Price	$105,000 ($95,000 after incentives)	$108,900	$106,550	$116,200

Sources:

fueleconomy.gov
teslamotors.com
bmwusa.com
audiusa.com
mbusa.com

lorih · Apr 8, 2015

Nice summary, thanks for putting this is such a concise format and sharing. +1

Pollux · Apr 8, 2015

Thank you, @commasign, very handy.

One question: why not compare the P85D against the Audi A8? I see that there's a lot of commonality in your chart between competitors' horsepower ratings, speeds, and prices. But I would've thought that the top-end P85D (maybe with options) might be viewed competitively against the A8.

Thanks,
Alan

sickfox · Apr 8, 2015

this an awesome comparison. :smile: Does anyone know if TM can do something about the top speed via a software update?

commasign · Apr 8, 2015

Pollux said:
Thank you, @commasign, very handy.

One question: why not compare the P85D against the Audi A8? I see that there's a lot of commonality in your chart between competitors' horsepower ratings, speeds, and prices. But I would've thought that the top-end P85D (maybe with options) might be viewed competitively against the A8.

Thanks,
Alan

I always thought of the RS7 as Audi's halo performance sedan/grand coupe. The A8 is more of a luxury car like the BMW 7 series for which there is no "M" or "RS" equivalent.

LargeHamCollider · Apr 8, 2015

Tesla marketing should be using your chart, really puts things in perspective.

point1 · Apr 8, 2015

I can't be bothered to actually check the exact numbers but there is no chance in hell that those top speed numbers are correct for the BMW 640 and the Audi A7 quattro with 333 hp.

Max* · Apr 8, 2015

point1 said:
I can't be bothered to actually check the exact numbers but there is no chance in hell that those top speed numbers are correct for the BMW 640 and the Audi A7 quattro with 333 hp.

He's right, it's 130mph on the A7 with an asterisk stating "Top track speed electronically limited in the U.S. Always obey speed and traffic laws."

Kevin Harney · Apr 8, 2015

This was awesome. Thanks for all that work. I would love to see or maybe work on a similar chart for the Model 3 to get an idea of what to expect for that .....

Right_Said_Fred · Apr 8, 2015

Those MPG-numbers of the competition ofcourse are a complete joke: like the Audi A7 going from 18/28/21 for the 333HP version to 16/27/19 for the 560HP version (RS7). That's just 10% more fuel consumption. Yeah, right.

Electric cars are known for not losing many MPGe when putting in a bigger/stronger motor, on the other hand a bigger engine in ICE cars will kill the mileage. There are lies, bigger lies and MPG-numbers.

AndreyATC · Apr 8, 2015

Right_Said_Fred said:
Those MPG-numbers of the competition ofcourse are a complete joke: like the Audi A7 going from 18/28/21 for the 333HP version to 16/27/19 for the 560HP version (RS7). That's just 10% more fuel consumption. Yeah, right.

Electric cars are known for not losing many MPGe when putting in a bigger/stronger motor, on the other hand a bigger engine in ICE cars will kill the mileage. There are lies, bigger lies and MPG-numbers.

All Audi V8TT engines deactivate 4 of the cylinders when cruising
I was easily getting 27-30mpg when i had my S6 with 400hp+

560HP is the same engine with bigger turbos

mhpr262 · Apr 8, 2015

Who cares about those numbers when all the other cars are still powered by gasoline and are millstones of past decades hanging around our necks?

Johan · Apr 8, 2015

Very nice chart. Yes I know there are many other variables pro and con EVs/ICEs (in my book obviously strongly biased towards a positive for EVs) but the actual data you have listed is what it is and speaks for itself! I hope you will take the time to keep this updated, and perhaps also add other manufacturers later?

chickensevil · Apr 8, 2015

mhpr262 said:
Who cares about those numbers when all the other cars are still powered by gasoline and are millstones of past decades hanging around our necks?

Because most people want to claim that an EV is in a special category that is inferior to ICE. All along Tesla has been making cars that are made to compete directly with these ICE cars. So this chart is a great comparison to point out that Tesla really is out to go toe to toe with luxury performance cars.

I would be curious, to the OP, of the range on the cars. If I am not mistaken most of these tend to have ~300 miles of range. Just to drive home that the range of the car is also fine.

commasign · Apr 8, 2015

chickensevil said:
I would be curious, to the OP, of the range on the cars. If I am not mistaken most of these tend to have ~300 miles of range. Just to drive home that the range of the car is also fine.

Probably more like 400 miles range (20 gallons x 20 MPG). But who actually fills up their tank every night? Assuming an average daily usage of 60 miles per day (12000-15000 miles per year) and the average person refilling their tank when it gets down to 10-20%, the daily driving range is as follows:

Day 1: 400 miles
Day 2: 340 miles
Day 3: 280 miles
Day 4: 220 miles
Day 5: 160 miles
Day 6: 100 miles
Day 7: 40 miles - refuel

Versus Tesla is which is 220 miles every day (daily charge). Basically half the week, the ICE car would have a daily driving range of similar or less than the Tesla. Refueling ICE cars isn't exactly easy. Have you seen the lines at Costco?

sorka · Apr 8, 2015

Except that the P85D has less power than all of them. It doesn't even come close to 691. And at 440 KW max at full charge, it would be 590 hp assuming 100% conversion. With inverter efficiency at 93%(being generous here) and AC induction motor at 90%(again being generous), the most the P85D could be making at max charge would be 493 hp. The only reason it's 0-60 is faster, and just barely over the RS7 is because it's power band is perfectly flat so it has access to all torque at all RPMs. But in a rollon from any sort of speed, the P85D loses against all of the others in that chart.

commasign · Apr 8, 2015

sorka said:
Except that the P85D has less power than all of them. It doesn't even come close to 691. And at 440 KW max at full charge, it would be 590 hp assuming 100% conversion. With inverter efficiency at 93%(being generous here) and AC induction motor at 90%(again being generous), the most the P85D could be making at max charge would be 493 hp. The only reason it's 0-60 is faster, and just barely over the RS7 is because it's power band is perfectly flat so it has access to all torque at all RPMs. But in a rollon from any sort of speed, the P85D loses against all of the others in that chart.

I do like the RS7 especially after the Spock commercial. Audi better get their act together and make an RS7 e-tron.

Foodnut · Apr 8, 2015

Great summary!

Tesla basically has a model to go head to head price wise with each and every German car manufacturer.

JohnSnowNW · Apr 8, 2015

sorka said:
Except that the P85D has less power than all of them. It doesn't even come close to 691. And at 440 KW max at full charge, it would be 590 hp assuming 100% conversion. With inverter efficiency at 93%(being generous here) and AC induction motor at 90%(again being generous), the most the P85D could be making at max charge would be 493 hp. The only reason it's 0-60 is faster, and just barely over the RS7 is because it's power band is perfectly flat so it has access to all torque at all RPMs. But in a rollon from any sort of speed, the P85D loses against all of the others in that chart.

To be fair, none of the ICE vehicles are actually putting down that much hp either...

Rama · Apr 9, 2015

commasign said:
Probably more like 400 miles range (20 gallons x 20 MPG). But who actually fills up their tank every night? Assuming an average daily usage of 60 miles per day (12000-15000 miles per year) and the average person refilling their tank when it gets down to 10-20%, the daily driving range is as follows:

Day 1: 400 miles
Day 2: 340 miles
Day 3: 280 miles
Day 4: 220 miles
Day 5: 160 miles
Day 6: 100 miles
Day 7: 40 miles - refuel

Versus Tesla is which is 220 miles every day (daily charge). Basically half the week, the ICE car would have a daily driving range of similar or less than the Tesla. Refueling ICE cars isn't exactly easy. Have you seen the lines at Costco?

Never heard this argument before. Makes sense.

Tesla just changed the competitive landscape (vs Audi/Mercedes/BMW AWD Grand Coupes).

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