MS on order, trying to figure out my charging arrangements

JMG · Mar 12, 2015

I have an 85D on order and since I have plenty of time to wait, I thought I'd see if my current thinking is correct with regards to my planned charging arrangements.

I ordered the single charger because of a few reasons:

No longer offered as a production item obviously, retrofit only
I don't forsee needing rapid charging at home and don't intend on taking this on long road trips
The road trips I do intend on taking have SC on route
The HPWCs I see available in the DFW area (public), the majority of them are 40A or lower, so no added benefit
On the wait list for a CHAdemO adapter as there are a few in Dallas, so no dual chargers needed

However, I may later on decide to add the dual chargers if I see the need arises.

I have a 70 mile round trip daily commute to two different offices of mine. Because of the reasons above and going with a single charger, my original plan was to install a 14-50 at home and at both offices. The majority of the time I wouldn't need a charge at the office, but I liked the idea of having it as a safety net in case I needed to make a spontaneous drive during the day to a customer's house/business. And to avoid having to unplug and bag my UMC each morning, I was going to buy a spare UMC to keep in the car at all times.

Now, I'm thinking, if the HPWC is $750 and an additional UMC is $650...why not go ahead and get the HPWC (and have the wiring run for 100A if possible) and just keep the UMC that comes with the car in the car for charges at the office. The actual cost is only $100 more and I'm somewhat future proofing my home-charging arrangement should I decide to upgrade to dual chargers. I'll continue to install the 14-50 at my offices because I don't foresee needing that fast of a charge at my office, plus the expense aspect.

Am I correct in my thinking or am I overlooking something?

Thanks all for the help of this great forum!

dirkhh · Mar 12, 2015

Sounds like solid reasoning to me.
And you won't have to figure out a neat mounting solution for the UMC at home

scaesare · Mar 12, 2015

I think you have it down pretty pat.

I also have about a 70 mile round trip commute each day. On some evenings I'll drive another 25 miles or so typically.

I have dual chargers, but currently have my HPWC at home on only a 50A circuit, hence only use a single charger 99.9% of the time. To recoup my typically daily driving miles my charging only takes 3-4 hours at night. (I charge to anywhere between 60-75% on weeknights, depending on weather).

I opted for the HPWC for a number of reasons, but permanent installation, longer cable, cable management, and option for future power upgrade are among them. The UMC stays in the car for whenever I need it while travelling... I just don't consider it to be a robust "permanent" solutions (After all, the "M" in UMC stands for "mobile".) I also don't believe it would stand up to the rigors of constant plugging/unplugging for years.

I don't have charging available at my office, but there's a supercharger about 10 minutes away that I've used once when I had an unplanned longer trip.

I think your plan sounds spot-on.

Enjoy the car!

mikeash · Mar 12, 2015

I'm in pretty much the same situation. I got single chargers because I don't see the use in dual, and got an HPWC at home so I can keep the UMC in the car. At $100 more it's a pretty minor increment for something that's more robust for daily use, and looks nicer too. I've only had it for two weeks, but so far, so good.

Jaff · Mar 12, 2015

To see the use in dual chargers, EV owner's should remember to think outta the box / down the road a bit.

For example, in most folks regular daily life schedule, your daily plans can / will change dramatically...in 4 years and 160,000 electric kilometers of driving, I have required a "quicker than 40 amp" recharge mid day to accommodate these changing plans many times...probably close to once every / 3-4 weeks on average...a busier family with more variables (number of children / job requirements outside of 9-5 / etc.) might have dramatic "range changing plans" occur more frequently...ergo, being able to recoup range at a quicker rate is highly desireable, both at home and on the road.

Also, are you close to retirement?

When discussing retirement plans, many folks want to see things in places that they haven't travelled to before...many of these places to see will be slightly / greatly "off the beaten track"...if retirement is in your future during the timeframe that you will own this car, then one might not be so comfortable in dismissing the dual chargers (as most of your routes will be covered by superchargers...)

Just food for thought...:smile:

Chris TX · Mar 12, 2015

I agree. 2x insertion/removal cycles per day is a bit much for the UMC, I'm betting. Depending on where your office destination is, there might be a way to get the Destination Charger people to GIVE you a HPWC if you allow for public use. If you can't get a 100A circuit run for it, you can drop it to 50A (for 40A charging). I use my UMC for 100% home charging and only take it on the road with me if my destination is outside the Supercharger comfort zone.

dirkhh · Mar 12, 2015

Jaff said:
To see the use in dual chargers, EV owner's should remember to think outta the box / down the road a bit.

For example, in most folks regular daily life schedule, your daily plans can / will change dramatically...in 4 years and 160,000 electric kilometers of driving, I have required a "quicker than 40 amp" recharge mid day to accommodate these changing plans many times...probably close to once every / 3-4 weeks on average...a busier family with more variables (number of children / job requirements outside of 9-5 / etc.) might have dramatic "range changing plans" occur more frequently...ergo, being able to recoup range at a quicker rate is highly desireable, both at home and on the road.

Also, are you close to retirement?

When discussing retirement plans, many folks want to see things in places that they haven't travelled to before...many of these places to see will be slightly / greatly "off the beaten track"...if retirement is in your future during the timeframe that you will own this car, then one might not be so comfortable in dismissing the dual chargers (as most of your routes will be covered by superchargers...)

All great points. I think it also depends a lot on where you live. In Canada there appears to be a decent 80A charging infrastructure. In other parts of North America (and the world) this may look differently. In some places there are superchargers everywhere (not envious, Californians... not me). In others there are lots of CHAdeMO chargers (Estonia comes to mind - or Japan... even though there are some issues with some of them being quite limited at least when used with a Tesla).
With the second charger now sold as SC installed accessory you have $2k for a second charger vs. $450 for the CHAdeMO adapter. Who knows what will happen with DC charging infrastructure where you live in the next 5-8 years. Who knows what other adapters Tesla may or may not bring to market. I think there are a lot more questions than answers. And the answers depend very much on where you live.

JMG · Mar 12, 2015

Good points.

Jaff, no where close to retirement so strike that one!

Thats why I decided for an extra $100, why not go ahead and get the HPWC instead of a 2nd UMC. As far as upgrading to dual chargers, I'll hold off on that for a while because I'm hoping that we'll get some superchargers out my direction (E of DFW) to connect us to Arkansas/TN etc. I don't think I'll need dual chargers anytime soon, but for an extra $100 I thought it was worth the upgrade for the durability and looks.

Thanks for the insight. Placed my order for the HPWC!

Jaff · Mar 12, 2015

Durability and looks are also very valid points in favour the HWPC...that, and you will never forget to pack your UMC (otherwise kept in your garage used for your daily charging) in the car when you venture out into the wild...yes, it has happened to me...:redface:

JMG said:
Good points.

Jaff, no where close to retirement so strike that one!

Thats why I decided for an extra $100, why not go ahead and get the HPWC instead of a 2nd UMC. As far as upgrading to dual chargers, I'll hold off on that for a while because I'm hoping that we'll get some superchargers out my direction (E of DFW) to connect us to Arkansas/TN etc. I don't think I'll need dual chargers anytime soon, but for an extra $100 I thought it was worth the upgrade for the durability and looks.

Thanks for the insight. Placed my order for the HPWC!

saladman · Mar 12, 2015

Having lived with EV's for 4 years now, we had two stipulations for our next purchase:

Largest battery possible. (85Kwh)
Fastest Charging Possible (Dual Chargers)

Nope, I don't use them all the time. But when I need them, I need them, and want them available immediately. Far more useful than insane acceleration, your charging is only real limitation on these cars.

dirkhh · Mar 12, 2015

saladman said:
Having lived with EV's for 4 years now, we had two stipulations for our next purchase:

Largest battery possible. (85Kwh)
Fastest Charging Possible (Dual Chargers)

Nope, I don't use them all the time. But when I need them, I need them, and want them available immediately. Far more useful than insane acceleration, your charging is only real limitation on these cars.

in 18 months / 25k miles with my S60 I can count the number of times where charging was a limitation on one hand. And there was a single instance where dual chargers and HPWC would have helped: forgot to plug in when coming home in the evening and noticed about an hour before I had to leave... I could have gotten about 10 more kWh into the car which would have meant to not have to go all "hypermiler" on my way to an appointment.
I repeat - it all depends on where you live and what charging options there are around you. For many people "home" might be the only time they ever get > 40A. And unless you forget to plug in in the evening, 10kW should be enough to charge over night.

Jaff · Mar 12, 2015

dirkhh said:
Who knows what will happen with DC charging infrastructure where you live in the next 5-8 years. Who knows what other adapters Tesla may or may not bring to market. I think there are a lot more questions than answers. And the answers depend very much on where you live.

Agree, it will be interesting to watch the future developments in the EV charging infrastructure...no one area is perfect...we would all like to see more Supercharging in our back yards, but the L1 infrastructure such as long term weekly parking at airports / train stations also needs improvement (San Diego airport with their myriad of Level one, long term charging / parking spots have we near Toronto quite jealous)...many more hotels, restaurants and convention centers will need a huge increase in both low and high amperage L2 charge stations to accommodate future demand.

Lets hope the charging infrastructure develops quickly and evenly, with all charging station hosts sharing information about their industry's "best practices"...

- - - Updated - - -

I couldn't agree more!

saladman said:
Having lived with EV's for 4 years now, we had two stipulations for our next purchase:

Largest battery possible. (85Kwh)
Fastest Charging Possible (Dual Chargers)

Nope, I don't use them all the time. But when I need them, I need them, and want them available immediately. Far more useful than insane acceleration, your charging is only real limitation on these cars.

Cottonwood · Mar 12, 2015

saladman said:
Having lived with EV's for 4 years now, we had two stipulations for our next purchase:

Largest battery possible. (85Kwh)
Fastest Charging Possible (Dual Chargers)

Nope, I don't use them all the time. But when I need them, I need them, and want them available immediately. Far more useful than insane acceleration, your charging is only real limitation on these cars.

Hear, hear!!!

And my quiver of charging adapters will soon include a CHAdeMO adapter!

TexasEV · Mar 12, 2015

The dual charger is installed at service centers now without a price penalty, so you can wait to decide if it's useful for you. Other than the few HPWCs you see on the
Tesla charging map, there are only two public high-amp level 2 charging stations in Texas that I am aware of-- Fredericksburg (only 48A) and Iraan.

JPP · Mar 12, 2015

JMG said:
I have an 85D on order and since I have plenty of time to wait, I thought I'd see if my current thinking is correct with regards to my planned charging arrangements.

I ordered the single charger because of a few reasons:

No longer offered as a production item obviously, retrofit only

I don't forsee needing rapid charging at home and don't intend on taking this on long road trips

The road trips I do intend on taking have SC on route

The HPWCs I see available in the DFW area (public), the majority of them are 40A or lower, so no added benefit

On the wait list for a CHAdemO adapter as there are a few in Dallas, so no dual chargers needed

However, I may later on decide to add the dual chargers if I see the need arises.

I have a 70 mile round trip daily commute to two different offices of mine. Because of the reasons above and going with a single charger, my original plan was to install a 14-50 at home and at both offices. The majority of the time I wouldn't need a charge at the office, but I liked the idea of having it as a safety net in case I needed to make a spontaneous drive during the day to a customer's house/business. And to avoid having to unplug and bag my UMC each morning, I was going to buy a spare UMC to keep in the car at all times.

Now, I'm thinking, if the HPWC is $750 and an additional UMC is $650...why not go ahead and get the HPWC (and have the wiring run for 100A if possible) and just keep the UMC that comes with the car in the car for charges at the office. The actual cost is only $100 more and I'm somewhat future proofing my home-charging arrangement should I decide to upgrade to dual chargers. I'll continue to install the 14-50 at my offices because I don't foresee needing that fast of a charge at my office, plus the expense aspect.

Am I correct in my thinking or am I overlooking something?

Thanks all for the help of this great forum!

As far as unplugging and plugging the UMC in repeatedly and any potential wear and tear, you might consider getting extra appropriate adapters, so that the 'wear and tear' is on the connection between the UMC and the adapter. This might save wear and tear on the NEMA receptacle (since the 14-50Rs are not really rated for lots of cycles). Yes, potentially more wear and tear on the UMC itself. Not sure which is better. FWIW I leave my NEMA 14-50 adapter plugged in at home and disconnect at the adapter when I need to pack up my UMC. YMMV.

tga · Mar 12, 2015

Jaff said:
To see the use in dual chargers, EV owner's should remember to think outta the box / down the road a bit.

For example, in most folks regular daily life schedule, your daily plans can / will change dramatically...in 4 years and 160,000 electric kilometers of driving, I have required a "quicker than 40 amp" recharge mid day to accommodate these changing plans many times...probably close to once every / 3-4 weeks on average...a busier family with more variables (number of children / job requirements outside of 9-5 / etc.) might have dramatic "range changing plans" occur more frequently...ergo, being able to recoup range at a quicker rate is highly desireable, both at home and on the road.

Also, are you close to retirement?

When discussing retirement plans, many folks want to see things in places that they haven't travelled to before...many of these places to see will be slightly / greatly "off the beaten track"...if retirement is in your future during the timeframe that you will own this car, then one might not be so comfortable in dismissing the dual chargers (as most of your routes will be covered by superchargers...)

Just food for thought...:smile:

But there's no longer a discount for ordering the car with dual chargers, so there's no penalty for getting it later. Given that, I'd wait and see how the OP's future needs develop.

JPP said:
since the 14-50Rs are not really rated for lots of cycles

I call BS on this sentiment. It gets thrown around TMC all the time. While it's better safe than sorry, I've never seen (nor been able to find) any proof of this.

- - - Updated - - -

JMG said:
I have an 85D on order...

Out of curiosity, why would you spend the extra money for an S85D (vs S85) in TX? There isn't much performance difference, and I can't see a need for AWD outside of the snow belt (unless you're planning to go offroading...)

CHG-ON · Mar 12, 2015

I got the dual chargers for future-proofing. Who knows if I made the right choice. My home only has a 100amp supply and taking it up to 200 would have cost about 3K from the pole to the house, fully installed. So a big cost difference for me. So I set up a separate 50amp circuit just for the car and it seems to work just fine. I only charge at the wee hours and have never had a problem. I also have the EV rate, so I run things like my hot tub after the car finishes at the low rate and have actually seen my costs drop. Who knew?! The vast majority of my trips are from and to home, so it seems to work well. I also find that there are so many charging stations that are relatively easy to get to when I am off somewhere, so it has been OK. With the planned expansion of Superchargers on the west SF Bay (and now Petaluma...yay!), I think I am OK for the time being. For all I know I may never use that second charger, which would be a bummer. But If DC-DC takes off, it would a handy option.

I did cough up the extra $$$ for the spare UMC because I am a spaz and would most certainly forget the one at the house and be SOL. But the difference between that and the added 100amps, compared to a HPWC, was large enough to justify the convenience.

I'm just waiting for spiritual charging, where I just wish and it happens!

Cottonwood · Mar 12, 2015

TexasEV said:
Tesla charging map, there are only two public high-amp level 2 charging stations in Texas that I am aware of-- Fredericksburg (only 48A) and Iraan.

There are a few more than two. Most of the little "lightning bolts" are 80-Amp HPWC's at Destination Charging locations, and the big lightning bolts are Superchargers on the Tesla "Find Us" page. Here is a screen shot from Find Us | Tesla Motors in Texas.

scaesare · Mar 12, 2015

tga said:
I call BS on this sentiment. It gets thrown around TMC all the time. While it's better safe than sorry, I've never seen (nor been able to find) any proof of this.

While I know you were referring specifically to eh statement of 14-50R's not being up to the task of lots of insertion cycles, I earlier stated I wasn't sure the UMC was up to the task.

Specifically, I don't trust the UMC-head/adapter interface to hold up to lots of cycles for a number of reasons:

-The interface can have a little play in it, and the pins inside aren't terribly robust. I expect that there will be stresses during cycles that will take it's toll.

- The14-50 is a little "stiff" and it takes a little effort/torque that unless a person is very careful will be exerted on the adapter

- The adapter/plughead combo is long and the weight of the UMC "brick" will exert forces as it's moved around during insertion cycles, yanking on the interface

- The person opting to plug and unplug it every day so they can then plug in at work is likely going to incur 2 cycles per weekday. That's ~650 cycles a year. By the time your 8 year battery warranty is up, that's over 5,200 cycles.... I suspect that's gonna have an impact

Even when the HPWC was $1500 I recommended it as a solution for home installation. Now that it's only $100 more than a UMC it's a no-brainer IMO.

Chris TX · Mar 12, 2015

Or you can do what I do and have an extra 14-50 UMC adapter and just leave it in the outlet in your house. Just unplug the UMC from the adapter and use another one you keep in the car. That way, you aren't messing with the 14-50 in your house, and to remove the adapter, it's a simple push of a button and the UMC slides out easily.

MS on order, trying to figure out my charging arrangements

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