New EPA sticker are announced for feedabck

[vfx]

They are looking for comments. Make them there (as well as here).

There are proposing two types, one with a "grade" and one more like the old horizontal. these a good step (Gallons per 100!) are far from perfect so make your comments heard!

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/label.htm
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/gas-label-2.htm

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/gas-label-1.htm

EV versions:
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/label...2-electric.jpg

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/label...1-electric.jpg

feedabck?

[qwk]

Great idea. Since most americans are not very intelligent, this will help in understanding electric vehicle efficiency.

[vfx]

For the record, if you are inclined to make comments (and I hope some of our smarter posters do!) you should do it ASAP for maximum effect.

Things to get you thinking.

Why have an EV be A+? Would a Esclade EV be as good as a Think EV? Should the not give efficiency's for EVs be on a separate scale?

Some of the graphics are not clear as to what they mean.

[kgb]

Why have an EV be A+? Would a Esclade EV be as good as a Think EV? Should the not give efficiency's for EVs be on a separate scale?

I sent in my comment, and that is exactly what I addressed. I didn't like the "school grading" system. Problems with that include what you mention. Also, a vehicle that gets an A in 2005 may only deserve a C in 2015.

I suggested to them that they create a formula in which they can plug in the various relevant numbers and obtain a benchmark number. I admit that I stole the idea from the way computer speed is measured, but that idea would work here. As machines get old, their benchmark would remain the same, but newer vehicles would get better benchmarks allowing for fairer comparison. I figure that you'd plug in the estimated number of gallons used in a year, the CO2 emissions, and other pollutants/particles etc... (for electric, you'd substitute kw-h for gallons) And we'd look for benchmark numbers as they trend down to zero.

I don't know why they didn't ask me for my input before now, I am full of good ideas.

[qwk]

^^^While your idea is good, it is far too complicated for the average person. The school grading system, although very basic, helps EV's because EV efficiency is not going to change much. It does however widen the gap between ICE vehicles and EV's which will hopefully help get more electrics on the road.

[kgb]

...but it doesn't address the issue of comparing a monster Hummer EV with a huge battery and electric motor to a Think EV. A rating scale is supposed to tell people about the differences between cars so they can make an informed choice. When both the Hummer and Think get an A+, then the rating system fails.

[mpt]

I don't think they're saying that a hummer with a 9v battery attached to the back wheel will get an A+, it might get a D over a D- for the regular model. {There should be an F for Hummer of course}

I wrote & suggested that C be the median rather than B- as manufacturers looking to differentiate themselves would prefer to advertise B- over C than B over B- as it's clear more apparent (simpler) that their product is better and it'd require two steps from C to B- to get that which is bonus for us.

I agree with the rolling average otherwise we'll all end up at B or even A something and it'll become meaningless. The rolling average will result in year-on-year battles for the new A.

{Total side note: Only members with a three letter handle can be in this thread}

[shark2k]

{Total side note: Only members with a three letter handle can be in this thread}

Just to be a jerk haha.

...So this isn't off topic, I am happy to see they are changing the sticker to hopefully be a little more accurate and to make more sense for EVs and hybrids.

-Shark2k

[vfx]

Who invited that guy^^^^. Oh wait, he's a shark. You may enter sire...

So why 2.80 to figure the cost of gas? And why not give to cost of electricity as 13cents per kWh? It's an equally flawed concept.

I think they should educate people by putting on kWh per mile on the EV sticker Though I like the kWh per 100.
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/label/nprm-label2010.pdf

Also

[edo]

just to get back on the three letter handle...

I'd say the median can be halfway between B- and C+, and (since only one car will have it) give it the B-.

Here is what I sent:

1) ALL the grades should be given based on wheel-to-well efficiency for all types of vehicles (hybrid Hummer with 2 miles of plug-in range probably doesn't get an A)

2) The mean should be half-way between C+ and B-. Any car getting the exact mean value should get the B-

3) Raw scores should be available for year-to-year traceability. Link should appear in the sticker's fine print.