This kind of thing is why everybody hates you, dealers!

mikeash · Feb 23, 2015

I thought I had a pleasant experience buying my Toyota from a local dealer a couple of years ago. But I went for a Tesla once I could afford it, and now I'm trading in my Prius for a Model S.

I went to get a replacement title from the DMV because I couldn't find it, and they said, sorry, there's a lien on this. Huh? I never financed the thing. Turns out the dealer titled it with a lien even though I didn't finance it. And now it's likely going to take several days to un-screw the situation, delaying my delivery for the Model S.

I mean, how do you screw that up? I wrote them a big fat check, and they still managed to send the thing off to Toyota Finance? Idiots! And of course this was long ago, so I don't even have anyone I can yell at.

Sorry, I just had to vent.

cpa · Feb 23, 2015

Sorry for your inconvenience and dealer incompetence!

In California, if you finance your car, you do not receive the "pink slip." (Now it is more like a rainbow, but we still call it the pink slip.) In addition when you receive the registration in the mail for the first time and in subsequent years, the registration will note "registered owner" (the buyer) and legal owner (the bank or finance company." It stays like this until the debt is paid off and the lien is removed. So, if there were a mistake, the buyer could get remedied within a month or so of purchase.

I guess Virginia must have different rules for holding title to autos.

mikeash · Feb 23, 2015

I've never financed a car before (well... not intentionally!) so I have no idea what the rules are like in Virginia for it. My registration doesn't say anything about it, but I have no idea if that's because Virginia registrations don't say that in general, or because of the nature of this particular screwup.

Mental note for next time: check on this stuff earlier!

Krugerrand · Feb 23, 2015

Now, now, you know very well they were looking out for you, mikeash. They have your best interests at heart. The inconvenience you're experiencing now is for your own good. Embrace the debacle and be happy for the opportunity.

strider · Feb 23, 2015

Did it not list the lien on the title? I live in Cali now with the system cpa described but I grew up in Oklahoma. There you get the title but there's a section that lists any lein holders right there on the title. Strange that Virginia doesn't do something similar.

Sorry to hear about your troubles!

tga · Feb 23, 2015

strider said:
Did it not list the lien on the title? I live in Cali now with the system cpa described but I grew up in Oklahoma. There you get the title but there's a section that lists any lein holders right there on the title. Strange that Virginia doesn't do something similar.

I've bought cars with financing in CT and MA. In both states, if there is a lienholder, the DMV sends the newly-issued title directly to the lienholder. You never see it. There is no indication on the registration that there is a lienholder.

mikeash said:
I went to get a replacement title from the DMV because I couldn't find it

If your state is like CT or MA, maybe you couldn't find it because it was originally sent to the leinholder (ie, Toyota Finance) instead of you?

mikeash said:
Sorry, I just had to vent.

In the last two cars I financed, the banks lost/destroyed the titles (intentionally? I don't know...). When I paid off the loans, they sent me a release of lien letter, but played dumb on supplying a title. I had to order a replacement/duplicate, on my nickle, of course. Thanks for letting me vent, too.

mikeash · Feb 24, 2015

tga said:
If your state is like CT or MA, maybe you couldn't find it because it was originally sent to the leinholder (ie, Toyota Finance) instead of you?

I'm certain that's the case. When I was hunting around my files for it, both my wife and I were a bit confused because we never remembered getting the thing... but of course it had to be there! It must not have occurred to me when I purchased it that I never saw a title.

Fortunately Toyota is being helpful in getting this resolved, they're just not terribly fast.

NoMoGas · Feb 24, 2015

mikeash said:
I thought I had a pleasant experience buying my Toyota from a local dealer a couple of years ago. But I went for a Tesla once I could afford it, and now I'm trading in my Prius for a Model S.

I went to get a replacement title from the DMV because I couldn't find it, and they said, sorry, there's a lien on this. Huh? I never financed the thing. Turns out the dealer titled it with a lien even though I didn't finance it. And now it's likely going to take several days to un-screw the situation, delaying my delivery for the Model S.

I mean, how do you screw that up? I wrote them a big fat check, and they still managed to send the thing off to Toyota Finance? Idiots! And of course this was long ago, so I don't even have anyone I can yell at.

Sorry, I just had to vent.

May not have been a "mistake". Vehicles with liens are "on the books" showing as an asset, along with your cash so a two fer. If you were the only one, fine, but they wouldn't be the first dealer to cook the books of credit-worthyness by "mistakenly" holding inventory assets that should have been released long ago.

iadbound · Feb 24, 2015

mikeash said:
I'm certain that's the case. When I was hunting around my files for it, both my wife and I were a bit confused because we never remembered getting the thing... but of course it had to be there! It must not have occurred to me when I purchased it that I never saw a title.

Yikes!! But I'm in VA too, and there is no way the DMV would have sent you the title if Toyota had titled it with a lien. It is VA after all -- sticklers.

mikeash · Feb 24, 2015

I've been trying all day to reach my contact at the dealer for an update with no success. Love these guys!

Decided to try Toyota Financial directly and had better results there. They're either sending me the title itself or a letter of lien release (they didn't know which, awesome!) FedEx overnight, and it should get here tomorrow. (Although the representative told me to wait until Thursday morning before I panic, just in case.)

Learning is fun!

JST · Feb 24, 2015

mikeash said:
I'm certain that's the case. When I was hunting around my files for it, both my wife and I were a bit confused because we never remembered getting the thing... but of course it had to be there! It must not have occurred to me when I purchased it that I never saw a title.

Fortunately Toyota is being helpful in getting this resolved, they're just not terribly fast.

Right--in VA, if you finance a vehicle, the financing company gets the title. You only get the title once the lien is removed.

mikeash · Feb 26, 2015

In case anyone is wondering how this turned out, everything is now resolved. FedEx showed up this afternoon with a letter of lien release from Toyota. A quick trip to the DMV and I have a new title. Delivery of my Model S is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Hooray!

MikeL · Feb 26, 2015

That's good, please keep in mind, as we all do, just how much the dealership "protected" you, the consumer

. Your testimony, as personal experience might come in handy.

mikeash · Feb 26, 2015

Oh yeah, "protection" as in "racket." Can't see how we could possibly survive without them.

mikeash · Feb 27, 2015

Just one more quick followup to properly end the story: took delivery today with no drama. No unexpected nonsense appeared at the last minute. The Model S (need to think of a good name for it now) is happily charging in my garage as we speak. Fantastic car, and well worth the hassle from Toyota.

MikeL · Feb 27, 2015

Nice! Better post a pic or 2 of your shiny new E-sled

mikeash · Feb 28, 2015

But... they all look the same!

Oh, fine.

andrewket · Feb 28, 2015

mikeash said:
I'm certain that's the case. When I was hunting around my files for it, both my wife and I were a bit confused because we never remembered getting the thing... but of course it had to be there! It must not have occurred to me when I purchased it that I never saw a title.

Fortunately Toyota is being helpful in getting this resolved, they're just not terribly fast.

Virginia offers electronic titles. With the lien it's more than likely you never received it.

mikeash · Mar 1, 2015

Electronic titles probably answer the question of what happened to the original title, which mystified me. I figured either the dealer or the finance company would have it and send it to me, and I couldn't figure out why they'd just send me a letter and I'd have to go get a new one. If a physical title never existed in the first place, that would do it.

andrewket · Mar 1, 2015

The good news is with electronic titles, under normal conditions the lien can be released and you can go to the DMV to pick up the title within a few hours. I've done it a few times after paying off a loan.

You have to tell the lien holder to specify pickup at a specific location though. Otherwise the default is a title is printed and mailed to you.

This kind of thing is why everybody hates you, dealers!

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