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Thread: The New RAV4 EV

  1. #871
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    But those incentives were mainly for leasing, right?
    S 85 / MC Red / Pano / 19" (w/ upgraded tires) / Performance Seats / Obeche Gloss / Tech / Parking / Fog / Sound / Leather Trim / Headliner
    Order Placed: 06/08/13 (On Hold); Order Confirmed: 08/27; Production: 09/05 - 09/11; Delivery 09/21; VIN # 21495

  2. #872
    No incentives. No servicing. No warranty repairs or reimbursement for even routine maintenance to dealers out of CA.

    Classic compliance car. We shouldn't be surprised if they crushed the lease returns, EV1 style.

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkjayakumar View Post
    No incentives. No servicing. No warranty repairs or reimbursement for even routine maintenance to dealers out of CA.

    Classic compliance car. We shouldn't be surprised if they crushed the lease returns, EV1 style.
    Like Honda, Toyota did not offer CHAdeMO, even though both Toyota and Honda are founding members.

    Honda absolutely will crush the Fit EV, as all the cars are closed end leases.
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  4. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyWilliams View Post
    Like Honda, Toyota did not offer CHAdeMO, even though both Toyota and Honda are founding members.

    Honda absolutely will crush the Fit EV, as all the cars are closed end leases.
    It's interesting that Ford is selling their Focus Electric in most states now and the leases are standard where you have the option to buy the car at the end. Yet they are doing zero marketing of the Focus Electric. Toyota probably didn't offer ChAdeMO in the eRav4 because Tesla made the drive train.

  5. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcsharp View Post
    Toyota probably didn't offer ChAdeMO in the eRav4 because Tesla made the drive train.
    Toyota didn't offer CHAdeMO on their "in-house" Scion iQ EV either. Tesla offers a CHAdeMO adaptor now.

    Obviously, Toyota doesn't functionally support CHAdeMO. I suspect a big part of that reason is that they don't receive any CARB-ZEV credit for DC quick charging (unlike Tesla, which demonstrated to CARB their 93 second battery swap to get "fast refueling" credit). Toyota is in great shape, selling 507.5 credits of "AT PZEV" last fiscal year ending Sept 30, 2013 and buying ZERO credits.

    In addition, Toyota carries a strong CARB credit balance of:

    876.084 ZEV = Zero Emission Vehicle

    0.000 NEV = Neighborhood Electric Vehicle

    122.336 TZEV = Transitional Zero Emission Vehicle

    7,479.925 AT PZEV = Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (gotta love the Prius)

    205.756 PZEV = Partial Zero Emission Vehicle


    Here's a number that actually surprised me; Toyota sells as many cars in California as GM and Ford COMBINED:

    Zero Emission Vehicle Credits

    Manufacturer Requirement

    A vehicle manufacturer’s ZEV requirement is based on a percentage of all passenger cars and light-duty trucks from 0 to 8,500 pounds (lbs.), delivered for sale in California. The table below is the 2012 California vehicle production of large volume and intermediate volume manufacturers.

    Large and Intermediate Volume Manufacturer
    2011 Vehicles Production Delivered for Sale in California
    Manufacturer

    Passenger Cars and LDT1 (Light Duty Truck 0-8500 lbs)

    BMW - 57,983

    Chrysler / Fiat - 118,150

    Ford - 143,625

    FUJI Heavy Industries/Subaru - 21,184 (exempt from pure ZEV credits)

    General Motors - 159,999

    Honda - 229,337

    Hyundai - 66,272

    KIA - 47,695

    Land Rover - 7,246 (exempt from pure ZEV credits)

    Mazda - 34,111

    Mercedes Benz - 57,904

    Nissan - 135,021

    Toyota - 296,880

    Volkswagen - 85,017

    TOTAL

    1,460,424
    Last edited by TonyWilliams; 10-18-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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  6. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyWilliams View Post
    In addition, Toyota carries a strong CARB credit balance of:
    ...
    7,479.925 AT PZEV = Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (gotta love the Prius)
    Yeah, Prius liftback and Prius v wagon are AT-PZEV. PiP is enhAT-PZEV. Camry Hybrid is also AT-PZEV although Prius c and Lexus CT are not. I believe no other Lexus and Toyota hybrids are AT-PZEV from glancing thru 2012 thru 2014 MYs at Drive Clean for scores of 9.

  7. #877
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    I posted a bunch of this in the ZEV credit thread:

    Why 2600 cars?

    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog..._tps_12-09.pdf

    2012 through 2014 Requirements. A manufacturer must meet the total ZEV obligation with ZEVs or ZEV credits generated by such vehicles, excluding NEVs and Type 0 ZEVs, equal to at least 0.79% of its annual sales in credits.

    Toyota will build 900,000 cars for California sales in model years 2012-2014, and Toyota will build 2600 pure ZEVs that are over 3750 pounds or more, so:

    (2600 total sold * 3 credits per 100 mile range car) / 900,000 Toyota cars sold in California in three years = 0.867%, and they need 0.79%. It looks like the perfect number, with a bit to spare. But that's not completely accurate, because some of these cars are being sold out of California and they either get zero or maybe one credit per car. It may get closer to the 0.79% threshold than Toyota would like. There is a $5000 penalty per credit not earned with a car, plus they would have to buy the credits on the open market.

    Zero Emission Vehicle Credits

    Why are credit balances in units of grams/mile Non-Methane Organic Gases (g/mile NMOG)?

    When credits are earned they are multiplied by the g/mile NMOG fleet average requirement for the appropriate model year. Please note that in the ZEV Regulation g/mi NMOG is used only as index (which decreases over time)—it is the “currency” that credits are stored in and does not represent actual values of g/mi NMOG. The intent of this multiplier was to reward early production of vehicles.


    Fleet Average Non-Methane Organic Gas Exhaust Mass Emission
    Requirements for Light-duty Vehicle Weight Classes
    (50,000 Mile Durability Vehicle Basis)

    Model Year - Fleet Average NMOG (grams per mile), All PCs; LDTs
    ---------- 0-3750 lbs LVW ---- LDTs 3751 lbs. LVW - 8500 lbs. GVW

    2010+ ------- 0.035 --------------- 0.043


    I will bet that the difference between 0.035 and 0.043 NMOG multiplier between a passenger car and light duty truck over 3750 pounds is yet another reason why Toyota used the Rav4 EV.

    I have no idea what balance they may have carried over since 1990. The 1007 Rav4 EVs * 3 = 3021 * 0.043 = 129.0 earned NMOG credits for California fiscal year.

    (2600 total Rav4 EVs * 3 credits per 100 mile range car) * 0.043 = 335.4 "NMOG" / CARB-ZEV credits for all three years. In the fiscal year ending Sept 30, 2013, Toyota carried a credit balance of 876.084 NMOG-CARB-ZEV.


    *************************************

    Toyota does get credit for the unsold Scion iQ EV cars:

    7.4 ZEV Credits for Advanced Technology Demonstration Programs.

    In model years 2009 through 2014, ZEVs and Enhanced AT PZEVs, excluding NEVs, placed in a California advanced technology demonstration program for a period of two or more years, may earn ZEV credits even if it is not “delivered for sale” or registered with the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). To earn such credits, the manufacturer must demonstrate to the reasonable satisfaction of the Executive Officer that the vehicles will be regularly used in applications appropriate to evaluate issues related to safety, infrastructure, fuel specifications or public education, and that for 50 percent or more of the first two years of placement the vehicle will be operated in California. Such a vehicle is eligible to receive the same allowances and credits that it would have earned if placed in service. To determine vehicle credit, the model- year designation for a demonstration vehicle shall be consistent with the model-year designation for conventional vehicles placed in the same timeframe. Manufacturers may earn credit for as many as 25 vehicles per model, per ZEV state, per year under this section C.7.4. A manufacturer’s vehicles in excess of the 25-vehicle cap will not be eligible for advanced technology demonstration program credits.

    (c) Cap on Use of Credits (for ATDPs).

    (1) ZEVs. Credits earned or allocated by ZEVs pursuant to this section C.7.5, not including all credits earned by the vehicle itself, may be used to satisfy up to one-tenth of a manufacturer’s ZEV obligation in any given model year, and may be used to satisfy up to one- tenth of a
    Last edited by TonyWilliams; 10-20-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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