Waiting to find the perfect P85+ or no +?

irvineboy said:

Will the performance plus add anything like better handling and steering (for someone that doesn't track the car)?

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If you want BMW-like handling, get a +. If you are satisfied with Lexus/Mercedes style handling, don't bother.

I think the only difference on the + was the staggered fit tires (wider in the back). If you find a P85 and a set of the staggered fit tires/wheels you will have a P85+.

Or vise versa.

SherSlick said:

I think the only difference on the + was the staggered fit tires (wider in the back). If you find a P85 and a set of the staggered fit tires/wheels you will have a P85+.

Or vise versa.

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No, the suspension is different. Over time some of the components made their way to all model S vehicles, but in 2013 there was a significant difference between a P85 and a P85+.

If I was buying a used Model S, make sure you buy one with Autopilot.

It is definitely worth it!

irvineboy said:

I thought only the p85d had autopilot?

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Nah, there are a few S60s, S85s, P85s and P85+s that came with Autopilot (mid-late 2014).

I'd be on the hunt for them, if someone is looking to upgrade to a S85D/P85D.

You could post a wanted ad in the forums even a "Make me Upgrade" of sorts.

Also, check with Tesla for an inventory vehicle

andrewket said:

No, the suspension is different. Over time some of the components made their way to all model S vehicles, but in 2013 there was a significant difference between a P85 and a P85+.

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What made it into all models during 2013 were stiffer bushings for the rear subframe and the rear lower control arms. The remaining unique suspension elements for the P85+ are:

1) Larger sway bars front and rear
2) Stiffer bushings in the rest of the rear suspension elements
3) Different valving for the air dampers
4) Wider rear wheels and tires

These make a BIG difference in the overall handling of the car IMO.

The biggest difference for me with the plus is the steering. Non-plus has much less road feel.

I am very happy with the handling of the +. Quite nimble for such a heavy car. The replacement cost for tires is a killer though. Mine was delivered 9-29-14 and has all the autopilot features. I believe, based on Elon's comments, those features were added to the production line approx 9-15-14. I just made the cut and I love it. Whew!

irvineboy said:

So how does the P85 performance plus handling and steering feel compared to the P85D? I am not talking speed because you can't compare the two. I mean the handling and steering.

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Haven't driven a P85D yet, so don't know. I can tell you I was rather shocked at the difference between my P85+ and a loaner S85 on coils w/ 19's. I was prepared that there would be a difference, but not that it would be so drastic and that it would be so noticeable when just driving around (not hot rodding it).

dennis said:

What made it into all models during 2013 were stiffer bushings for the rear subframe and the rear lower control arms. The remaining unique suspension elements for the P85+ are:

1) Larger sway bars front and rear
2) Stiffer bushings in the rest of the rear suspension elements
3) Different valving for the air dampers
4) Wider rear wheels and tires

These make a BIG difference in the overall handling of the car IMO.

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That said, I found the stiffer bushings in the LCAs the primary benefit of the +. As of at least 11/2013, all Model S were shipped with those. The larger sway bars added a hint of twitchyness that I didn't really enjoy, which I believe lola referred to as "head snatch" as you go over uneven pavement. The wider rear tires help, I'm positive of that, but I'm less positive they're well-suited for a daily driver. The inability to rotate tires locks you in to higher maintenance costs unless you swap to non-plus wheels.

#3 above might make a big difference. I was extremely unimpressed with the handling feel of all the air suspension varieties in around the timeframe he's looking, though, which is why I ended up with coils (and why lola switched his P85+ to coils).

Every time this comes up, all I can suggest is to drive a couple. It's awfully subjective. If you're getting air either way, the plus definitely handles better. You'll have to decide if the extra up-front and ongoing (tire) costs make it worthwhile.

Some further notes for OP: You're correct. 11/2013 is when the folding mirrors started rolling out. Mine delivered 11/23 and was the only vehicle that went out that day that had them (it was just about to enter production when I had them switch to the new tech package at the last minute). So for 2013s you have a month an a half worth, at most, and nearly all of those are going to reside in CA since they delivery primarily to CA in December to pad their numbers.

Second, the black headliner wasn't an option in 2013. I don't recall when it was added, but it was at least a few months into 2014.

Good luck in your search. Let us know if we can help!

You can buy mine! :biggrin: Items for sale under my forum name.