Why so many "do not reproduce" signatures?

Danal · Jan 20, 2015

On the TeslaMotorsClub forum, I seem to see a lot of people with a signature that says "Do not reproduce without written permission" phrased a bunch of different ways. I do not recall seeing this on other forums. Why is this so common on TMC? Was there a past incident?

What's the scoop?

Thanks,

Danal

MikeL · Jan 20, 2015

Good question. Here's my take on it - others please add details as I'll miss something relevant, for sure. There was a time not too long ago when a new, publicly owned company that many considered "controversial" was coming on strong, against the odds, breaking new ground & stirring up old established markets. Sound familiar? :smile:
At the same time there existed a dearth of information, perceived or real, from the company about its products, future etc. while demand for such information was extremely high. This resulted in lots and lots of discussion on this forum most of the time heavy on speculation. Good stuff and lots of it, but speculation nonetheless. THEN - media, stock "analysts", market pundit types, & general internet bloggies found us and started paying close attention to the point where they were just coming here to get their "story". Happened a lot. So members began, en masse, to say "don't quote me." So basically, it's about the stock market/price (I figure)

& Danal, you can quote me :smile:

bonnie · Jan 20, 2015

A number of us were quoted out of context by a number of diff journalists writing diff stories, where our words were cherry-picked to fit a particular story goal. As you can imagine, that didn't sit well with a number of us.

While a number of people said that the signature warning wouldn't have any impact, it hasn't occurred since then.

dsm363 · Jan 20, 2015

In the past, a number of 'journalists' pulled posts without attribution and without contacting the person who posted it.

mknox · Jan 21, 2015

My company has a "social media" policy and I want to be clear that I'm talking for myself and that it can't be misconstrued as some sort of official statement from my company.

Danal · Jan 21, 2015

Perfect, thank you!

David99 · Jan 21, 2015

A journalist doesn't need consent to copy and paste what we write here. It's part of freedom of press. If they would have to get consent from everyone who speaks publicly there would be no free press possible. Same with photos. Anyone can take your photo in the public and publish it, regardless if you give consent or not. The only restriction is when it comes to commercial use. The fact that journalists also make a living doesn't make it commercial use. So all these disclaimers are not legally binding. The government makes the laws, no one else. The fact that someone says "you can't do this or that unless I give consent" is meaningless if the law says otherwise.

stevezzzz · Jan 21, 2015

I believe I was the first to use a signature like this; I did it in response to being quoted in the NY Times, out of context, following the Broder kerfuffle. It may not be legally binding, but I'd like to think a responsible journalist would contact me and to get background information and an up-to-date quote, if what I wrote here was of sufficient interest to be included in a piece of journalism.

stopcrazypp · Jan 21, 2015

David99 said:
A journalist doesn't need consent to copy and paste what we write here. It's part of freedom of press. If they would have to get consent from everyone who speaks publicly there would be no free press possible. Same with photos. Anyone can take your photo in the public and publish it, regardless if you give consent or not. The only restriction is when it comes to commercial use. The fact that journalists also make a living doesn't make it commercial use. So all these disclaimers are not legally binding. The government makes the laws, no one else. The fact that someone says "you can't do this or that unless I give consent" is meaningless if the law says otherwise.

While not legally binding, just having it there seems to act as an effective deterrent and that's all that matters really. The incidents of "journalists" just blatantly copying (esp. with no attribution/permission) did seem to go down after people started posting that message.

bonnie · Jan 21, 2015

David99 said:
A journalist doesn't need consent to copy and paste what we write here. It's part of freedom of press. If they would have to get consent from everyone who speaks publicly there would be no free press possible. Same with photos. Anyone can take your photo in the public and publish it, regardless if you give consent or not. The only restriction is when it comes to commercial use. The fact that journalists also make a living doesn't make it commercial use. So all these disclaimers are not legally binding. The government makes the laws, no one else. The fact that someone says "you can't do this or that unless I give consent" is meaningless if the law says otherwise.

bonnie said:
While a number of people said that the signature warning wouldn't have any impact, it hasn't occurred since then.

stopcrazypp said:
While not legally binding, just having it there seems to act as an effective deterrent and that's all that matters really. The incidents of "journalists" just blatantly copying (esp. with no attribution/permission) did seem to go down after people started posting that message.

We're aware it's not legally binding. But as noted, the rash of incidents where journalists were cherry-picking quotes has stopped since the signatures were placed. If nothing else, someone can reply to the article where they were quoted out of context with a comment noting they had asked to be contacted first.

Of course, nothing will replace the humor of a journalist quoting a forum member who had a fictional name as his TMC handle, and quoting him by that name thinking it was actually his real name. Kind of embarrassing for the journalist, where it became clear to all just how lazy he was.

dsm363 · Jan 21, 2015

You never quote the Sausage King of Chicago without asking him first. Journalism 101

gaswalla · Jan 21, 2015

I took delivery over 2 years ago.. had some minor issues... taken out of context, published on a car website (known to be anti-ev), with headlines about "tesla owners being delivered defective cars." Back then, headlines like that, with snippets from TMC really were influential. Now, I think most folks are looking at the overall successful company practices and not extrapolating one guy's experience as a prediction that the company is doomed to failure.

Jaff · Jan 22, 2015

bonnie said:
We're aware it's not legally binding. But as noted, the rash of incidents where journalists were cherry-picking quotes has stopped since the signatures were placed. If nothing else, someone can reply to the article where they were quoted out of context with a comment noting they had asked to be contacted first.

Of course, nothing will replace the humor of a journalist quoting a forum member who had a fictional name as his TMC handle, and quoting him by that name thinking it was actually his real name. Kind of embarrassing for the journalist, where it became clear to all just how lazy he was.

...This ^^^...

Danal · Jan 22, 2015

David99 said:
A journalist doesn't need consent to copy and paste what we write here. It's part of freedom of press. If they would have to get consent from everyone who speaks publicly there would be no free press possible. Same with photos. Anyone can take your photo in the public and publish it, regardless if you give consent or not. The only restriction is when it comes to commercial use. The fact that journalists also make a living doesn't make it commercial use. So all these disclaimers are not legally binding. The government makes the laws, no one else. The fact that someone says "you can't do this or that unless I give consent" is meaningless if the law says otherwise.

These statements do not align with US law on several points:

1) Freedom of the press does not override US copyright law. "Fair Use" may (and I repeat may) allow publication of excerpts or analysis. This is a long complex subject... but one thing is perfectly clear: "press" does not in any way override copyright.

2) The only requirement for an author to copyright written material is to create it in fixed form (paper or computer or...). No other form of registration is required by US law to establish copyright; it exists from the moment the work is "fixed in tangible form", including machine readable. Details here (US Goverment copyright site).

3) The photo metaphor is even more misleading. Copyright for photographs, by US law, resides with the photographer. The photographer has total control over whether someone else, including a journalist, can publish the photo. The parallel given "...anyone can take your photo...", is more along the lines of a posting author here mentioning someone else's proper name in a post. The posting author still retains copyright, no matter who is "in" the photo or post.

4) TMC is not "Public". It is privately owned, and makes content available through certain channels of distribution (at present, this forum), and is therefore legally considered a "publication" in its own right. This has even further effect in invalidating the examples given.

IANAL and I can't fully lock down what is and is not permitted by a "journalist" vs. what exact phrasing of limitations in a signature protects. Nonetheless, I can definitively state that "press" does not "override" other protections.

Source: I am a published professional photographer, published professional writer, and have been employed as a magazine editor in the past.

bxr140 · Jan 24, 2015

While my thoughts on the topic would offend most, this thread was a reminder to me (and now, hopefully others) that one can disable signatures with a simple button toggle in 'settings'.

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Why so many "do not reproduce" signatures?

Danal

electricmotorglider.com

MikeL

some guy

bonnie

I play a nice person on twitter.

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S

mknox

Well-Known Member

Danal

electricmotorglider.com

David99

Well-Known Member

stevezzzz

R;SigS;P85D;SigX;S90D;XP100D;3LR;YLR

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member

bonnie

I play a nice person on twitter.

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S

gaswalla

Model S,3,X.. CT with Austin delivery

Jaff

Active Member

Danal

electricmotorglider.com

bxr140

Active Member

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