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P85D vs Horrid Winter Slush

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Dbitter1

Journeyman Member
Dec 12, 2014
217
14
Chicago, IL
Wanted to share my experience, on the first day of truly crappy ~30F weather, with slush, sleet, ice, black ice, snow, and otherwise miserable potluck winter weather. Y'know, the kind that you REALLY want a AWD vehicle to drive in.

In a nutshell: my Tesla did everything I expected it to do... it performed at least as well - if not better- than my former Audi Quattro on a miserable mix of poor friction roads. The ABS worked very nicely when stomping hard on the brakes, to bring the car to a controlled stop; the car accelerated smoothly under low and medium power with no noticeable slip (e.g any lasting longer than a few milliseconds) . Did not do a hard Launch just for safety sake, but given a proper area or need, the car certainly would have tried. Bravo, Tesla, bravo. I have an all year car electric car now!

This was with the standard all-weather tires on 19" rims. I assume it would be even better with specialized winter tires*... our first 4"+ snowfall is supposed to come next week, so will test it under heavy snow load then.

Which brings up an interesting question... if I raise the car (via air suspsension) for some reason (e.g. to get out of my alley without bottoming out the car) is there some way to get it to "forget" the event so it doesn't always try to do it again each time?

Also: despite previous reservations, the "stock" all-weather floor mats (the lesser grade WeatherTech ones sold from Tesla directly) seemed to contain the mess from shoes nicely.

Also: didn't know there was a UPPER limit on discharge on the battery when cold, too... just thought it limited regen braking, but it also limited accelleration too... was around ~ 300KW IIRC, and disappeared a lot quicker than the regen limit did as the car warmed.

*Did not feel the need to drain my wallet further for a special tire set. It does not snow THAT much in Chicago... or at least not without Snowmageddon happening.
 
Which brings up an interesting question... if I raise the car (via air suspsension) for some reason (e.g. to get out of my alley without bottoming out the car) is there some way to get it to "forget" the event so it doesn't always try to do it again each time?

Yes, look for a little button to pop up at the top of the air suspension section of the interface allowing you to delete the auto-raising feature for that location. Unfortunately there's no way to delete this globally or for other locations. You sort of have to go back to each location to delete the flag.
 
P85D, 19" winter tire package, horrible driving conditions tonight: several inches of fresh snow that turned to slush on the mostly unplowed roads and highways (weather forecast was much better than this!). I was blown away by the performance of the car under these conditions. About 30+ miles of mixed highway and suburban roads, ZERO tire slippage, ZERO traction control warning, ZERO brake solenoid (ABS starting). Passed several multi-car wrecks on the drive. Honestly I can't give a better score for its performance tonight. 100/100.
 
It's nights like these I wonder if a front wheel or AWD car would have done me better.

I went through the winter of 2013 with the OEM Goodyears and had a lot of traction control warnings. I went through the winter of 2014 with my Michelin Xi3s with good success. Tonight, the car couldn't handle the ice unfortunately. We had a small snowfall last night (<1/2 inch) and then it rained all day. By the late evening, there was ice on a lot of the roads. I was driving slowly (10-15 mph) and coming to a slow stop (basically my regen engaging -- wonder if low regen is better for these situations), and then it happened. About a 120 degree spin to a stop. Came close to the curb, but luckily didn't hit it. Took a 90-degree turn and then stopped at a friend's house to pick up my daughter. I headed out of the cul-de-sac and then back on to the street. One block later I came to another stop: 90-degree spin. Both spots with ice -- smooth but irregularly shaped as I later inspected.

Last time this happened was about 15 years ago. Hopefully just some bad patches of ice.
 
I was out in Boston today as well right when the snow started and by the time I had come back to CT, there was maybe an inch or so of unplowed fresh snow. I have the S85, no winter tires and except for one turn where it pulled at the end, it didn't feel any different than last winter in my Camry Hybrid. At this rate, I might not even get the snow tires.
 
It's nights like these I wonder if a front wheel or AWD car would have done me better.

I went through the winter of 2013 with the OEM Goodyears and had a lot of traction control warnings. I went through the winter of 2014 with my Michelin Xi3s with good success. Tonight, the car couldn't handle the ice unfortunately. We had a small snowfall last night (<1/2 inch) and then it rained all day. By the late evening, there was ice on a lot of the roads. I was driving slowly (10-15 mph) and coming to a slow stop (basically my regen engaging -- wonder if low regen is better for these situations), and then it happened. About a 120 degree spin to a stop. Came close to the curb, but luckily didn't hit it. Took a 90-degree turn and then stopped at a friend's house to pick up my daughter. I headed out of the cul-de-sac and then back on to the street. One block later I came to another stop: 90-degree spin. Both spots with ice -- smooth but irregularly shaped as I later inspected.

Icy roads demand low regen. Loss of rear traction very dangerous and unwieldy with full regen on.
 
and then it happened ... {snip} ... Hopefully just some bad patches of ice.

Black ice will kill anyone. Any vehicle*. The manufacturer that figures out how to warn drivers of same in enough time to take corrective action proactively... will be a very rich one. And probably win some kind of prize for humanity. Don't feel bad. Be glad you handled it and no damage!

* I suppose if you have tire chains and/or cat tread, you have a decent fighting chance.
 
Icy roads demand low regen.

Icy roads demand low regen. Loss of rear traction very dangerous and unwieldy with full regen on.

I am repeating this for emphasis. Any force at the wheels starting or stopping has to be controlled
very precisely on ice. Even traction control hunting for traction between wheels can cause a breakaway.
In extemis if a spin starts you are often better off shifting to neutral to take force of all wheels to come out
of the spin. I suspect most far north drivers know this. Brian
 
I would echo your comments completely...we picked up our P85D (Maxx) yesterday from the Toronto store...on the ride home, we encountered freezing rain, ice, snow and rain... Maxx, wearing the 19" Nokia handled the journey flawlessly!

Wanted to share my experience, on the first day of truly crappy ~30F weather, with slush, sleet, ice, black ice, snow, and otherwise miserable potluck winter weather. Y'know, the kind that you REALLY want a AWD vehicle to drive in.

In a nutshell: my Tesla did everything I expected it to do... it performed at least as well - if not better- than my former Audi Quattro on a miserable mix of poor friction roads. The ABS worked very nicely when stomping hard on the brakes, to bring the car to a controlled stop; the car accelerated smoothly under low and medium power with no noticeable slip (e.g any lasting longer than a few milliseconds) . Did not do a hard Launch just for safety sake, but given a proper area or need, the car certainly would have tried. Bravo, Tesla, bravo. I have an all year car electric car now!

This was with the standard all-weather tires on 19" rims. I assume it would be even better with specialized winter tires*... our first 4"+ snowfall is supposed to come next week, so will test it under heavy snow load then.

Which brings up an interesting question... if I raise the car (via air suspsension) for some reason (e.g. to get out of my alley without bottoming out the car) is there some way to get it to "forget" the event so it doesn't always try to do it again each time?

Also: despite previous reservations, the "stock" all-weather floor mats (the lesser grade WeatherTech ones sold from Tesla directly) seemed to contain the mess from shoes nicely.

Also: didn't know there was a UPPER limit on discharge on the battery when cold, too... just thought it limited regen braking, but it also limited accelleration too... was around ~ 300KW IIRC, and disappeared a lot quicker than the regen limit did as the car warmed.

*Did not feel the need to drain my wallet further for a special tire set. It does not snow THAT much in Chicago... or at least not without Snowmageddon happening.
 
I am repeating this for emphasis. Any force at the wheels starting or stopping has to be controlled
very precisely on ice. Even traction control hunting for traction between wheels can cause a breakaway.
In extemis if a spin starts you are often better off shifting to neutral to take force of all wheels to come out
of the spin. I suspect most far north drivers know this. Brian

It appears that the regen in the P85D does this automagically. In the few times that I have been in downhill, full regen mode, and the traction has gotten iffy, the P85D disabled regen completely until traction was regained solidly. I like the P85D automagical operation here!
 
I like the P85D automagical operation here!
Agreed... it seems to have this part figured out.

**HOWEVER** day two of crappy weather, and the mix of [already] horrid weekend traffic and weather, and today's experience is a little different. The traction control remains unparalleled, and at all times on several hours of errands today I felt totally safe.

That said, driving down a nice open street, with a little snow on it and a light snowfall, steady at ~30MPH, all of a sudden I got a bit "STOP!" from the front park assist, like it saw a ghost... then shortly after the computer disabled parking assist for me. No worries, kept driving, didn't try to adjust my speed or anything, but marginally unnerving if Elon & crew aren't testing autopilot in something other than sunny California what it would have done. Pulled into first store, parked, came out, then the front camera was apparently disabled, with appropriate complaint on dash. Next store, back to both camera and park assist disabled notifications. Looked at camera, only a little slush, but oh well, no big deal. I'll stay in full control in this weather anyway, thank you.

Complaint number two: although I don't expect the car to defy the laws of physics, with the heat, almost no regen brake, and slow-a*s Chitown city traffic, I was at ~830 on the old watt-mile average! :scared:
 
It appears that the regen in the P85D does this automagically. In the few times that I have been in downhill, full regen mode, and the traction has gotten iffy, the P85D disabled regen completely until traction was regained solidly. I like the P85D automagical operation here!

Good to hear your early impression that this issue may have been sorted. Was very mindful of this driving on glare ice just now. With Mu headed toward zero, the P85+ can't tolerate more than 30kW of regen without giving up the rear end.
 
Yeah, I discovered quickly that traction control in the 2WD Tesla isn't as skillful in deceleration as in acceleration. I'll turn down regen the next time it gets really slippery.

I had an experience driving into Oregon last winter. Driving along on the Interstate at 70mph, I saw a nice snow-covered scene I wanted to photograph, so I braked to pull over to the shoulder. And discovered when the ABS started chattering that it wasn't snow covered -- it was ice-covered, as was the road. Looked totally dry. Now I know what black ice is. It scared me on a very fundamental level to see all the semi trucks blithely cruising by at 70 unaware of their peril.
DSC_6040.JPG
 
Yeah, I discovered quickly that traction control in the 2WD Tesla isn't as skillful in deceleration as in acceleration. I'll turn down regen the next time it gets really slippery.

I had an experience driving into Oregon last winter. Driving along on the Interstate at 70mph, I saw a nice snow-covered scene I wanted to photograph, so I braked to pull over to the shoulder. And discovered when the ABS started chattering that it wasn't snow covered -- it was ice-covered, as was the road. Looked totally dry. Now I know what black ice is. It scared me on a very fundamental level to see all the semi trucks blithely cruising by at 70 unaware of their peril.

Rime and reason:)
 
yeah, the P85D handled these two days of ice and slush nicely. Did not feel any traction issue at all, and it was able to accelerate smoothly, (and saw several accidents). The heated windshield was great - ice formed on it after mere 10 minutes in parking lot, but was able to thaw them off after about 5 minutes of windshield heating...
 
Black ice will kill anyone. Any vehicle*. The manufacturer that figures out how to warn drivers of same in enough time to take corrective action proactively... will be a very rich one.
...
Rover had such a system, the Icelert in the 70's. It was an infrared sensor that warned if the road ahead was below freezing so if you saw something that looked like water and the alert was on you knew it was ice.