Tesla: Subsidized by the government

What do you mean ”they think you have 2 heads!”?

SwedishAdvocate said:

What do you mean ”they think you have 2 heads!”?

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He means people think you're from outer space (or crazy.)

RiverBrick said:

He means people think you're from outer space (or crazy.)

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Ok. Thanks.


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DrTaras said:

.../ when you move on and explain how much big oil gets tax subsidies in the USA, they want to hear nothing of it and think you have 2 heads! /...

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Can't you just pull out your iPhone (or whatever device) and show them THE definitive source on how much the US subsidizes Big Oil/Big Gas annually?

And can’t someone list that source here in this thread?

SwedishAdvocate said:

Can't you just pull out your iPhone (or whatever device) and show them THE definitive source on how much the US subsidizes Big Oil/Big Gas annually?

And can’t someone list that source here in this thread?

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While it's technically possible to do that, it doesn't matter to those who have their minds made up. Most people buy into what they hear most often--even if it has no basis in fact. That's why advertising and religion are successful. It might be different if we taught critical thinking in school, but not one of the powers that be wants that, so that's never going to happen.

Here's a report from a very respectable oganization: TADFFSS - OECD
Looking at the U.S. Data spreadsheet and totaling the figures, I get $5004M subsidies for coal, $6032M for oil, and $5273 for natural gas, for a total of $16.309 billion dollars.

Here's a more activist site with other estimates: Fossil Fuel Subsidies: Overview - Oil Change InternationalOil Change International

SwedishAdvocate said:

Can't you just pull out your iPhone (or whatever device) and show them THE definitive source on how much the US subsidizes Big Oil/Big Gas annually?

And can’t someone list that source here in this thread?

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There's a complex web of direct and indirect subsidies for fossil fuels. The International Energy Agency says global direct fossil fuel subsidies total $550 billion a year. The International Monetary Fund pegs annual pre-tax fossil fuel subsidies at $480 billion and post-tax fossil fuel subsidies at $1.9 trillion.
I'm not finding any portion of U.S. military spending in the IMF report, which would be another large indirect subsidy for oil.

Here's a list of subsidies for fossil fuels that includes indirect costs not mentioned in the other reports.

When we traveled to San Jose to visit my father-in-law, one of his friends literally attacked my husband and I verbally with questions about subsidies and federal rebates. I wish I had known prior about oil subsidies. He even asked how much we pay for our license and registration and when he learned that we paid $150 for 5 yrs, he jumped all over that saying he paid taxes for my reduced costs. I shot back that he didn't since I live in AZ, not CA. He still felt like he paid for part of our car because of the rebate. I realized that I should be better prepared for situations like this.

The other incident came in LA in heavy traffic. An oil tanker came up next to us and blew his horn. Didn't know why he did it, but when he caught up with us again, he did it once more. I knew that it was us he was doing it to. I told my husband to try to get into another lane away from him before he rams us. Luckily, his lane moved faster and we never saw him again. It sure made me think that it's almost dangerous owning an electric car. Amazing how in the land of the free that some people think it only applies to specific people. The positives outweigh the negatives.

jerry33 said:

.../ it doesn't matter to those who have their minds made up. Most people buy into what they hear most often--even if it has no basis in fact. That's why advertising and religion are successful. It might be different if we taught critical thinking in school, but not one of the powers that be wants that, so that's never going to happen.

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This April I started at a new workplace. After a few months I traded my fairly old gasoline beater car to a fairly new but used methane-propelled car (In Sweden ~60% of all methane is produced locally from recycled organic waste from households, farms and food processing industries. There is ABSOLUTELY NO FRACKING anywhere in Sweden. As far as I’m aware there’s no fracking in any Scandinavian country). Although this car is used it could be mistaken for a brand new ~$48K car. (I paid ~$21K for it) I would of course want to drive an electric car, but I just cannot currently afford a Tesla. Anyways – this car-switch led to some questions and comments from my co-workers. This gave me a good opportunity to take the conversation over to AGW. And there I could use everything that’s on this page:

Skeptical Science | Global Warming and Climate Change skepticism examined

One 28-year-old co-worker said something along the lines that Earth has been warmer previously in history to which I answered something like: “That’s true. But then the sea-level was several meters higher…”

And that got through.


Here’s some other examples:

Actors Jason Beghe (G.I. Jane, Thelma and Louise) and Larry Anderson (Star Trek: Insurrection. Also starring in the Church of Scientology’s recruiting films) talk about why they left the Church of Scientology (35:52 – 42.00):



Two ex-mormons from the movie Religulous (59:45 – 1:02:14):

NOTE: NSFW! ‘Unfortunately’ (for me who wants to share this on TMC) Bill (Maher) ‘had to’ ‘throw’ in 5 seconds from a really cheesy sex scene depicting:

A woman stands nude from the waist up and a man is shown kissing her visible bare breasts.

Source: Religulous (2008) - Parents Guide

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If you believe the man in this YouTube-video who claims he previously was a catholic priest:

Watch for example 0:10 – 0:34 & 5:57 – 7:03. (Takes about 2 minutes.)