Tesla to make 8.2 million batteries daily

Nvbob · Nov 20, 2014

Small article in the Nevada Appeal this morning:

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/news/local/13874191-113/nevada-tesla-bacon-range

Here's what I found rather interesting:

Tesla Motors eventually will make 8.2 million batteries daily in Storey County, according to Ray Bacon, Nevada Manufacturers Association director.

He provided that figure during remarks at a Nevada Business Connections breakfast meeting in Carson City as he shared speaking duties with Bruce Breslow, director of Nevada’s Department of Business and Industry, and Joe Dutra of Reno-based Kimmie Candy Co. Tesla is building a gigafactory battery plant 30 miles northeast of Carson City near Interstate 80.

Bacon said Tesla’s newer battery-powered cars, which will target for a mid-range market rather than courting high end buyers as the current vehicles do, should have a range of 220 miles in hotter climates and above 300 in Nevada. He said that means a trip from Reno to Las Vegas would require just one charge en route, taking 15 minutes or so while a driver rests and has a snack as the car powers back up.

“They fully understand,” Bacon said of Tesla’s leaders, “that they will be under fire from day one.” He explained Tesla would be under fire from other automakers because it’s vying for the huge mid-range price market.

apacheguy · Nov 20, 2014

8.2 million cells? How many packs does that translate to?

Nvbob · Nov 20, 2014

apacheguy said:
8.2 million cells? How many packs does that translate to?

I imagine they will be used for multiple purposes - grid power storage, solar city hybrid systems, auto battery packs, etc.

The article did not go into too much detail.

Kalud · Nov 20, 2014

apacheguy said:
8.2 million cells? How many packs does that translate to?

Quickly and dirty, 8,200,000 / 7200 = 1138 (85kWh battery packs)

Real number is 71xx per 85 packs, I don't have that number handy but remember that this is a daily number not weeky, so its 60x to 70x more than the current production (about 1000/week)

FredTMC · Nov 20, 2014

Kalud said:
Quickly and dirty, 8,200,000 / 7200 = 113 (85kWh battery packs)

Real number is 71xx per 85 packs, I don't have that number handy but remember that this is a daily number not weeky, so its 6 to 7 more than the current production (about 1000/week)

no, it's 1138 packs.

But, keep in mind that the GF will be producing a larger form factor cell and a good percentage will go to model 3. So the number of equivalent car packs this 8.2m represents is probably significantly higher (2k car packs/day)

Kalud · Nov 20, 2014

FredTMC said:
no, it's 1138 packs.

Wow yes, so 60x to 70x more than current production.

AnOutsider · Nov 20, 2014

should have a range of 220 miles in hotter climates and above 300 in Nevada

This statement interests me. Typically the warmer climates do better on range, and the colder having more issues (due to pack warming and other elemental factors). So to say it'll go 220 in warm climates, and above 300 in NV (a warm climate) is a bit odd. Did they really mean that the excess heat in NV would mean longer range? Or did they mean 220 in the cold and above 300 in the heat?

bollar · Nov 20, 2014

apacheguy said:
8.2 million cells? How many packs does that translate to?

Roughly 1100 85 kWh packs.

okashira · Nov 20, 2014

They won't be 18650 cells. Why would they be?
Rumors are for a 21700 cell, 5Ah.
So, a Model S would need ~4000 cells.

8 Mil cells per day, and I am guessing 0 available to small time entrepenurs, e-bike builders, etc.

I am sure they will be happy to sell you an off grid storage pack for ~$15 per cell, though. :cursing:

ecarfan · Nov 20, 2014

bollar said:
Roughly 1100 85 kWh packs.

About 30% of Gigafactory output will be for stationary grid storage, and when Model 3 is in full production probably over half of the packs produced will be significantly smaller than 85kW.

Model 3 · Nov 20, 2014

ecarfan said:
About 30% of Gigafactory output will be for stationary grid storage, ...

And about 30% of the GF output will be produced of cells imported from Panasonic's other factories. So the cells produced in the GF will almost all go to produce car-packs for Teslas.

Grendal · Nov 20, 2014

AnOutsider said:
This statement interests me. Typically the warmer climates do better on range, and the colder having more issues (due to pack warming and other elemental factors). So to say it'll go 220 in warm climates, and above 300 in NV (a warm climate) is a bit odd. Did they really mean that the excess heat in NV would mean longer range? Or did they mean 220 in the cold and above 300 in the heat?

I take this to mean that there will be two battery packs. One that has a 300 mile range and one that will have a 220 mile range. That fits perfectly with the Model S. I think the person is repeating what they think they heard from Tesla and getting it wrong. Certainly temperature does have an effect on range and this person is mixing and matching different elements together from the way it sounds.

RobStark · Nov 20, 2014

AnOutsider said:
This statement interests me. Typically the warmer climates do better on range, and the colder having more issues (due to pack warming and other elemental factors). So to say it'll go 220 in warm climates, and above 300 in NV (a warm climate) is a bit odd. Did they really mean that the excess heat in NV would mean longer range? Or did they mean 220 in the cold and above 300 in the heat?

He did not say "warm" but "hotter". So my guess is he is referring to Arizona and similar places in the Summer where LEAF battery packs go to die.

I think 220 miles above 105 degrees.

Reno average annual temperature 67 degrees.
Las Vegas 80 degrees.
Phoenix 87 degrees.

105 degrees is the tipping point to degrade lithium ion batteries at an acceleration rate. Las Vegas does average 105 in July but many places in Arizona average higher than that in July like Phoenix at 112.

PeterW · Nov 20, 2014

shouldn't it be possible to take the number of cells made in a day, estimate how many day a year the factory would operate and get a total number made yearly. Then if that was 50GWh you could work out how many cells to create 1 KWh? Then how many cells would make up an 85KWh pack, a 50KWh pack, a 45, a 40.

- - - Updated - - -

8.2 times 360 days equals 2952 million cells. divide by 50 million KWh and you get 59 cells per KWh.
So an 85KWh pack would take 5015 cells
50KWh equals 2950 cells

- - - Updated - - -

Would someone like to comment on how many days a year a factory like this would operate?

derekt75 · Nov 20, 2014

RobStark said:
He did not say "warm" but "hotter". So my guess is he is referring to Arizona and similar places in the Summer where LEAF battery packs go to die.

I think 220 miles above 105 degrees.

Reno average annual temperature 67 degrees.
Las Vegas 80 degrees.
Phoenix 87 degrees.

105 degrees is the tipping point to degrade lithium ion batteries at an acceleration rate. Las Vegas does average 105 in July but many places in Arizona average higher than that in July like Phoenix at 112.

I think you're giving the author too much credit. The simpler explanation is that the author is just wrong and confused.

Model S 85 kWh pack is rated at 300 miles in fair weather without climate control, but 220 miles at 0°F (with heater). I suspect that's not a coincidence.

Nevada is generally at a higher elevation which should get you more range (15% more at Reno's elevation?), but I doubt the author is that clueful.

Incidentally, I don't think pack heating is the major driver in the reduced range; I think cabin heating and increased air density are the bigger draws. Intriguingly, the lower air density at 110°F more than offsets the greater A/C draw at 110°F.
Your Questions Answered | Tesla Motors

RobStark · Nov 20, 2014

derekt75 said:
Model S 85 kWh pack is rated at 300 miles in fair weather without climate control, but 220 miles at 0°F (with heater). I suspect that's not a coincidence.

S 85 is rated by the EPA at 265 miles although it can do 300 miles driving at a constant 55 mph.

But I think most people in the US speak of rated or approximated EPA range.

I think author probably heard right from the horse's mouth.

derekt75 · Nov 20, 2014

RobStark said:
S 85 is rated by the EPA at 265 miles although it can do 300 miles driving at a constant 55 mph.

But I think most people in the US speak of rated or approximated EPA range.

I think author probably heard right from the horse's mouth.

well "rated" might have been a poor choice of words by me, but
If you go to the Tesla page, the default is 306 miles at 70°. Turn on the heater and drop the temperature to its lowest setting and you get 220 miles.

I think that's a simpler explanation than trying to assume that the author really heard that the pack will do 300 miles in a normal environment, but due to some downright frightening longevity issues will only do 220 miles in a hot climate.

Until a more plausible explanation is unearthed, I stand by my conjecture that the author is simply mistaken.

Richard Benson · Nov 22, 2014

Tesla is working on Graphene battery for ranges of 800 Km ..according to Tesla Model S is still creating nearly 500 Km range ...

JRP3 · Nov 22, 2014

Richard Benson said:
Tesla is working on Graphene battery for ranges of 800 Km ..

Source?

sitter_k · Nov 22, 2014

my gut

Tesla to make 8.2 million batteries daily

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