10 year cost of ownership

eco5280 · Nov 14, 2014

Just running some numbers on what I expect to spend on this car over 10 years that I'm planning on keeping it.

$90,720 Purchase price
$03,628 4% sales tax
-$7,500 Federal Tax Credit
-$6,000 Colorado Tax Credit

$03,800 8 years of Tesla Service
$04,000 4 year ESA Extended warranty
$??,??? Deductible charges during years 5-8

$07,212 10 years of Colorado Ownership Tax*
$00,500 10 years of $50/yr EV tax

$06,428 Estimated electricity cost for 150,000 miles. (0.15/kWh for me currently, I guesstimated 3 miles/kWh over the ten years, probably pessimistic but I wanted a worst-case scenario)

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$102,788 over ten years, plus deductible ESA warranty charges. That's assuming you buy the ESA and 8 years of service.

* Colorado Ownership Tax is 2.1% the first year, 1.5% the second year, 1.2% the third year, 0.9% the fourth year, and 0.45% years 5-9. Totaling 7.95%

CanuckS#69 · Nov 14, 2014

As an owner with 100k+km on the clock, the one expense that you need to be aware of is tires. Depending on your driving style, you can eat tires in a hurry and they'll cost you more than "fuel" in the long run. I have 75% of my brake pads left, but I've been through multiple sets of tires. If you've owned a similar performance car in the past, this won't come as much of a surprise, but if you're new to the ridiculous performance of the S, you'll need to account for this in your planning.

NOLA_Mike · Nov 14, 2014

To be fair, I think you should deduct what you estimate the car to be worth at the end of 10 years. I.e., if at the end of 10 years you can sell it for $20,000 then that should be deducted from the total cost.

Mike

Aargau · Nov 14, 2014

CanuckS#69 said:
As an owner with 100k+km on the clock, the one expense that you need to be aware of is tires. Depending on your driving style, you can eat tires in a hurry and they'll cost you more than "fuel" in the long run. I have 75% of my brake pads left, but I've been through multiple sets of tires. If you've owned a similar performance car in the past, this won't come as much of a surprise, but if you're new to the ridiculous performance of the S, you'll need to account for this in your planning.

A good reminder for those of us who are first time buyers and have ordered the P85D.

andrewket · Nov 15, 2014

Colorado's tax credit is 6k? Wow.

yobigd20 · Nov 15, 2014

andrewket said:
Colorado's tax credit is 6k? Wow.

Yea but that yearly ownership tax SUCKS.

andrewket · Nov 15, 2014

yobigd20 said:
Yea but that yearly ownership tax SUCKS.

It does. We have it in VA as well, and no tax credit. In fact we pay a penalty to recoup the per gallon gas tax that we don't incur.

But by all means, everyone please go green. The commonwealth of VA is ass backwards.

Cottonwood · Nov 15, 2014

andrewket said:
In fact we pay a penalty to recoup the per gallon gas tax that we don't incur.

That is the $50/yr EV tax in Colorado that is meant to replace the gas tax that an EV does not pay. I consider $50/yr quite a deal for being able to use the public highway system.

eco5280 · Nov 15, 2014

NOLA_Mike said:
To be fair, I think you should deduct what you estimate the car to be worth at the end of 10 years. I.e., if at the end of 10 years you can sell it for $20,000 then that should be deducted from the total cost.

Fair enough, call it $80k net after selling the car. My Lexus RX400h is 8 year old and deducting resale value the total cost including gas has been $39k. Big difference, of course they're different animals but the Lexus was a pretty high tech expensive car when new!

sparc · Nov 15, 2014

considering the weight of the vehicle, should there be some accounting for suspension repairs due to bad roads and corrosion?

smsprague · Nov 15, 2014

In Arizona they wave the registration tax - saves about $6,000 over 5 years - no tax rebate but better over the long run

andrewket · Nov 15, 2014

Cottonwood said:
That is the $50/yr EV tax in Colorado that is meant to replace the gas tax that an EV does not pay. I consider $50/yr quite a deal for being able to use the public highway system.

Don't get me wrong, I think we should all contribute to maintaining the common infrastructure. But creating short term incentives to get people to move off gas helps us all. Virginia doesn't care.

ZBB · Nov 15, 2014

smsprague said:
In Arizona they wave the registration tax - saves about $6,000 over 5 years - no tax rebate but better over the long run

Technically it's not waived... But it is significantly reduced. The VLT on my 60 was ~$125 for 5 years paid up front (ie $25 per year on average). An ICE with the same base MSRP would have been $5k or so over 5 years (and can only be registered for a max of 2 years)...

smsprague · Nov 15, 2014

You got me . My S85 was $129 for 5 years instead of about $5,800. I still calling it free.

ArtInCT · Nov 15, 2014

Did you factor the cost of electricity in the year 2019 which is the half life of the car for the purpose of your exercise? Will it be 15 cents per kWh or is that the current cost.
Here in CT I have a 24 cent per kWh cost at present. I do not see it going down.

smsprague · Nov 15, 2014

Yikes on time of use I get .08 in summer
and .06 in winter off peak.

stevej119 · Nov 15, 2014

Originally Posted by CanuckS#69

As an owner with 100k+km on the clock, the one expense that you need to be aware of is tires. Depending on your driving style, you can eat tires in a hurry and they'll cost you more than "fuel" in the long run. I have 75% of my brake pads left, but I've been through multiple sets of tires. If you've owned a similar performance car in the past, this won't come as much of a surprise, but if you're new to the ridiculous performance of the S, you'll need to account for this in your planning.

QUOTE=Aargau;814494]A good reminder for those of us who are first time buyers and have ordered the P85D.[/QUOTE]

With a P85D you might be replacing tires every 10,000 miles if you're having fun with it. I just took delivery two days ago of an S85 and instantly realized I won't be seeing anywear (sic and pun intended) near the same tire life I'm used to. I drive 40,000 miles a year and the S85 is replacing a Ford Fusion hybrid with 60,000 miles (great car, btw). The tires on the Fusion are original and probably have 25,000 miles left on the tread because of the way I drove the car. Didn't drive with tire life in mind, but to maximize mgp (approx 48mpg). Long tire life was a byproduct of driving to maximize mpg. After two days driving the non-P S, I realize my tire life is going to be much, much shorter because I don't care about mpg anymore and it's just too fun flooring it at every free way onramp. Free (incrementally) power with solar!

kuttakamina · Jun 7, 2015

Cottonwood said:
That is the $50/yr EV tax in Colorado that is meant to replace the gas tax that an EV does not pay. I consider $50/yr quite a deal for being able to use the public highway system.

They should raise gasoline tax instead of taxing EVs. Keep gas expensive, so people don't buy those huge gas guzzler SUVs.

Imagine you get in a typical V6 ICE, and press the throttle .. say for 55-60mph, in your bedroom. Yeah, how do you like that in your eyes?
Just because everyone is doing it outside your bedroom doesn't mean it isn't the same air we are sharing. Yeah its outside your bedroom but there are thousands of those ugly ICE's pedal to the metal within a mile from you.
And then there is the whole part about being dirty and noisy.
And then there is supporting a lot of awful politics, violence, social issues connected with oil.
And then there is climate change.

Taxing EVs is stupid. They should tax ICE cars so much that EVs are actually cheaper or atleast the same price as gasoline.

Well taxing is stupid to begin with, we already pay so much income tax, why do we have to pay more gasoline tax, registration tax, and then tolls, and even then it isn't enough.
But given that we are going to be taxed to death regardless, I'd rather see ICE's being taxed.

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CanuckS#69 said:
As an owner with 100k+km on the clock, the one expense that you need to be aware of is tires. Depending on your driving style, you can eat tires in a hurry and they'll cost you more than "fuel" in the long run. I have 75% of my brake pads left, but I've been through multiple sets of tires. If you've owned a similar performance car in the past, this won't come as much of a surprise, but if you're new to the ridiculous performance of the S, you'll need to account for this in your planning.

My understanding is that with 19" wheels, the tire wear and tear is comparable to a similar sedan, say BMW 5 series. You can expect 35K-40K miles out of a set of tires.
With 21" wheels, the tire expense can be quite significant. 12K-15K.

And your driving style affects tire wear and tear a lot. Those P85D owners with 21" wheels are going to be quite upset in 5000 miles.

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andrewket said:
It does. We have it in VA as well, and no tax credit. In fact we pay a penalty to recoup the per gallon gas tax that we don't incur.

But by all means, everyone please go green. The commonwealth of VA is ass backwards.

In the socialistic republic of Maryland, you pay a rain tax - you pay tax if it rains. I am not joking. And we have both inheritance and estate tax.
I can give you many examples how MD is worse than VA. Car tax is a very small price to pay for better jobs, better infrastructure, more business friendly climate, lower property tax, lower income tax, etc. etc.
And if you feel MD is bad, try DC.

Every state has its plusses and minuses.

No2DinosaurFuel · Jun 7, 2015

Well let's be fair. The reason for taxing EV is they need to pay their fair share of damage to the roads and infrastructure. I completely agree they should tax those big ICE SUV more than EV, but it doesn't take away from the fact a 3 ton car does pretty much equal damage to the roads whether it is fueled by petroleum or electricity. Really what they need is to apply the same scheme they did with gasoline. With gasoline, it was simple. You need more gasoline to drive more. So tax the gasoline and it's easy to tax accordingly for those light users and heavy users of the road. With EV, it's a bit harder. I think the best and fair way to tax EV is to force people to report their annual mileage and tax accordingly. Thus those heavy EV users will pay their fair share of the road maintenance compared to those light EV users. In fact, my take on this is get rid of the gas tax and force people to report their annual mileage and tax accordingly on that. Thus those efficient hybrids don't get away with pay less than their fair share of the road maintenance.

chriSharek · Jun 8, 2015

No2DinosaurFuel said:
Well let's be fair. The reason for taxing EV is they need to pay their fair share of damage to the roads and infrastructure. I completely agree they should tax those big ICE SUV more than EV, but it doesn't take away from the fact a 3 ton car does pretty much equal damage to the roads whether it is fueled by petroleum or electricity. Really what they need is to apply the same scheme they did with gasoline. With gasoline, it was simple. You need more gasoline to drive more. So tax the gasoline and it's easy to tax accordingly for those light users and heavy users of the road. With EV, it's a bit harder. I think the best and fair way to tax EV is to force people to report their annual mileage and tax accordingly. Thus those heavy EV users will pay their fair share of the road maintenance compared to those light EV users. In fact, my take on this is get rid of the gas tax and force people to report their annual mileage and tax accordingly on that. Thus those efficient hybrids don't get away with pay less than their fair share of the road maintenance.

The gas tax (federal) hasn't been raised in over 20 years. While the prices are relatively low, we need to raise this tax to pay for the infrastructure. Meanwhile, all states should be transitioning to a $/mile driven type tax. I've been driving electric (84% in my Volt) since 2011 and been saying, "Catch me if you can" (with your tax).

Did I understand correctly that Colorado uses a % of the vehicle cost as the tax? So, a lighter Corvette is taxed twice as much as a heavier GMC Yukon SUV, because of the relative costs of the vehicles? That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. And I really liked a lot of things about Colorado . . .

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kuttakamina said:
And then there is climate change.

I'm not sure how we put a $ figure to this. But as soon as we do, I think we'll all agree on this.

I saw a recent political cartoon on Climate Change recently.

The skeptic said to the scientist, "What if all this Climate Change is just nonsense and isn't a result of humans?"

The scientist responded, "Well then, we will have build a better world anyway."

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