210 mile round trip, snow and temps in the teens--with no charging

efusco · Nov 14, 2014

A little of an exaggeration, if the concierge I spoke with is correct I'll have some 120v charging in the hotel parking lot, but with temps in the teens I'm not sure I'll be able to do much more than sustain my SOC when I arrive. Then the car will sit almost completely undriven for the entire day in a different parking lot with no chance of charging. Then I head home in what may start with a few inches of snow on the road. Also on brand new Xi3 snow tires-good for traction, often bad for efficiency.

I've got a bit of range anxiety about this, but I think I'll be OK--esp. if the hotel charging works out like I hope. Just me and my daughter so we can hunker down at an RV park or something if range gets tight. And I have a few bailout options about 15-20 miles from home in case I need to top up to make it there.

Have I mentioned that Missouri's charging infrastructure sucks? There is one charging option listed on PlugShare between Springfield, MO and Osage Beach, and none in Camdenton. And that one is someone's home with just a J1772 (probably for a Nissan Leaf or Volt I presume).

None the less, I'm doing it...but I'm bringing blankets!

JohnQ · Nov 14, 2014

Best of luck, hope the weather cooperates with a dry snow and tailwinds (both ways).

yobigd20 · Nov 14, 2014

yea, I'd keep range mode on and make sure to preheat the car while it's plugged in before you go and while your driving use the seat warmers and try to keep the heater off as much as possible. I've done around that same scenario, though I had charging options and didn't need to use them. *however* I was kind of following an 18 wheeler pretty closely for half the way. That *significantly* reduced my Wh/mi. kind of dangerous though. even made him uneasy at one point (he pulled over onto the shoulder so I would stop following him, haha). no prob, I just speed up to the next 18 wheeler and repeated. I even saw Wh/mi drop below 200 while going around 65-70 while following. the closer you get to it the better efficiency you'll get, although you'll expose your car to road debris kicked up (if your front is wrapped not as much of an issue). just don't smack into the back of him bc you probably wont survive

David99 · Nov 14, 2014

120 Volt charging over night helps a lot compared to nothing at all. Make sure you have a plan B ready before you go. Call the guy on plugshare ahead of time that you might come.

Cottonwood · Nov 14, 2014

Doable, but options are good! I'd verify at least a couple of RV spots at 30-75 miles from the return destination and make sure they are open this time of year.

The good news is that on a 14-50 the heaters settle down to much less than 50% of total power so you can stay warm in the car while it charges in the 20-25 mph rate. If you can't make it on a single charge, you will be close and won't need too much time at an RV park. Once again, the mph is the average over the session. Keep that in mind. No good way to tell how much of the shore power is going to heat and battery charging.

Good Luck!

stevezzzz · Nov 14, 2014

In my experience running Xi3's last winter, the tires won't hurt your efficiency much at all: they really do earn their LRR rating. Good luck!

Electric700 · Nov 14, 2014

efusco said:
A little of an exaggeration, if the concierge I spoke with is correct I'll have some 120v charging in the hotel parking lot, but with temps in the teens I'm not sure I'll be able to do much more than sustain my SOC when I arrive. Then the car will sit almost completely undriven for the entire day in a different parking lot with no chance of charging. Then I head home in what may start with a few inches of snow on the road. Also on brand new Xi3 snow tires-good for traction, often bad for efficiency.

I've got a bit of range anxiety about this, but I think I'll be OK--esp. if the hotel charging works out like I hope. Just me and my daughter so we can hunker down at an RV park or something if range gets tight. And I have a few bailout options about 15-20 miles from home in case I need to top up to make it there.

Have I mentioned that Missouri's charging infrastructure sucks? There is one charging option listed on PlugShare between Springfield, MO and Osage Beach, and none in Camdenton. And that one is someone's home with just a J1772 (probably for a Nissan Leaf or Volt I presume).

None the less, I'm doing it...but I'm bringing blankets!

I'm curious as to how the 120 V charge goes for you in those conditions. If able, please report back your before charge/after charge range, time left charging, and your overall experience.

paco3791 · Nov 14, 2014

stevezzzz said:
In my experience running Xi3's last winter, the tires won't hurt your efficiency much at all: they really do earn their LRR rating. Good luck!

Really interested in any further thoughts on this, I know it's hard to parse out the tires effect amongst all of the other variables but any further insight you or others can offer on these tires effects on Wh/m would be much appreciated.

Cottonwood · Nov 14, 2014

paco3791 said:
Really interested in any further thoughts on this, I know it's hard to parse out the tires effect amongst all of the other variables but any further insight you or others can offer on these tires effects on Wh/m would be much appreciated.

It's really hard to sort out with temps, driving styles, speeds, etc. It seems to me that 19's are several percent better efficiency than 21's, and my Michelin Primacy's are about equal to the Nokian Hakka 7's.

paco3791 · Nov 14, 2014

Cottonwood said:
It's really hard to sort out with temps, driving styles, speeds, etc. It seems to me that 19's are several percent better efficiency than 21's, and my Michelin Primacy's are about equal to the Nokian Hakka 7's.

understood, just trying to figure out what I should expect from a set Xi3's compared to the stock 19's on an upcoming road trip. Don't have the tires yet so I haven't been able to experiment myself. Not hearing anyone say they are dramatically worse so I guess I won't worry about it.

BerTX · Nov 14, 2014

I don't know about Missouri, but in a lot of colder areas, many of the RV parks close for the winter. You might check that before relying on them for a "Plan B".

jerry33 · Nov 14, 2014

BerTX said:
I don't know about Missouri, but in a lot of colder areas, many of the RV parks close for the winter. You might check that before relying on them for a "Plan B".

The ones I use in Kansas are open all year, but yeah, check the one's you're going to use.

stevezzzz · Nov 15, 2014

paco3791 said:
Really interested in any further thoughts on this, I know it's hard to parse out the tires effect amongst all of the other variables but any further insight you or others can offer on these tires effects on Wh/m would be much appreciated.

Can't give you exact numbers without running a controlled experiment, but my sense is that the rolling resistance of the Xi3's is really close to the Goodyear all-seasons. The biggest difference is that they feel a tad squidgy under acceleration, especially when the temperatures are warm-ish (how's that for subjective mumbo-jumbo?). But that shortcoming is easily forgiven when the snow begins to fly: compared to the Goodyears, the Xi3's stick like glue to a snowy surface.

paulkva · Nov 15, 2014

Cottonwood said:
Once again, the mph is the average over the session. Keep that in mind. No good way to tell how much of the shore power is going to heat and battery charging.

Slightly off-topic, but I've noticed that when I'm plugged in but not charging, the battery screen will still show me volts & amps being used by the car. Usually it's zero amps but it goes up if I have the HVAC on. So if you really want to know, you can stop charging briefly (or do it between plugging in and charging) and pull up the battery screen with the heat on, and you should be able to see just how much power it's drawing.

Good luck on the trip!

tomas · Nov 15, 2014

Electric700 said:
I'm curious as to how the 120 V charge goes for you in those conditions. If able, please report back your before charge/after charge range, time left charging, and your overall experience.

I have charged outdoors on 110 many times in temps in teens. Always got at least 3 mi gained per hour. Used to do 190 mi round trip like this w/110 frequently in winter.

mspohr · Nov 15, 2014

You should be able to get 20kwh overnight (120v x 16a x 10h). This should give you a nice margin.

JakeP · Nov 15, 2014

For reference, this is a very cuddly and comfortable blanket, according to my daughters:

Tesla Gear Shop Lambswool Blanket

Winter is officially here, I got my snow tires on just in time, and now I wonder whether my Wh/mi increase is more due to the dropping temps or the increased grip of the Hakka R2s!

tomas · Nov 15, 2014

mspohr said:
You should be able to get 20kwh overnight (120v x 16a x 10h). This should give you a nice margin.

That much may come out of wall with optimal 120 outlet but unlikely to get more than 12 kWH into car IRL.

qwk · Nov 15, 2014

Electric700 said:
I'm curious as to how the 120 V charge goes for you in those conditions. If able, please report back your before charge/after charge range, time left charging, and your overall experience.

As long as the battery is warm, you pick up normal 120V charging. I went from 219 to 248 rated yesterday. 10 hours, with temps around 9* F.

efusco · Nov 15, 2014

I made it, no sweat!
I was fairly conservative on the way up, ran with the AC off for a while, but it got into the 20s and we got chilly and the range was looking OK.
The hotel, Tan-Tar-A Resort, was awesome, they'd held a spot for me, took me right to the spot and I was able to charge overnight for almost 12 hours. Was up to 180 rated in the morning at one point, but by the time I preheated and got to the car it was down to 175 and by the time my day of cold soaking while we were at the robotics tournament it was down to 152 rated. But as it was just ~90 miles home from the tournament location that was plenty. Even with an average of ~350Wh/mi efficiency on the way home I still had over 40 miles rated on arriving home...almost exactly what I got overnight charging at the hotel.

If the hotel charging hadn't worked I still would have made it, but would have had to drive more conservatively and with less AC use on the way home and it would have been very tight, but good to know, even with it's below freezing, that 210 miles is doable.

BTW, I love the Xi3's, they are very nice riding/driving.

210 mile round trip, snow and temps in the teens--with no charging

Moderator - Model S & X forums

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Roadster#433, Model S#S37

R;SigS;P85D;SigX;S90D;XP100D;3LR;YLR

Active Member

TMC OG

Roadster#433, Model S#S37

TMC OG

Active Member

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

R;SigS;P85D;SigX;S90D;XP100D;3LR;YLR

part of the supercharge.info dev team

Out of warranty...

Well-Known Member

S P4996 ==> P02547

Out of warranty...

P130DL

Moderator - Model S & X forums

Similar threads