To "D" or not to "D"

mattreidy said:

I ordered an 85D shortly after the announcement in October. I'm thinking about switching the order and dropping the dual motors. I'm not convinced that I need AWD (I live in Virginia) or the 10% range boost and I know the 0.2 sec faster 0-60 isn't worth it to me.

What am I missing?

I'd be interested to hear from current 85 owners:

Do you wish you had AWD?
Do you think the 10% range bump is needed and worth it?

An added advantage of dropping the D is that I can take delivery in December 2014 and get my Federal tax credit without having to wait over a year for it...

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0.2sec 0-60 change is meaningless.

10% range is potentially significant, depending on your usage patterns.

AWD is potentially significant, depending on your usage patterns. Virginia does get snow/ice in the wintertime.

I say if you don't need AWD don't do it. If you don't need Autopilot then consider the used cars out there. Plenty of almost new ones being offered with huge discounts. $ 20-40K in savings.

When time comes to replace the tires, you'll regret abandoning the D.
And don't say we don't know, we know - D wont be shredding the rears as S does.
Your grandma driving style won't help.

mattreidy said:

The assumption being that sharing the regen braking on the D will extend the life of the rear tires? I can buy into that line of thinking, but wouldn't it also mean that now the front tires will wear more quickly and likely offset any difference?



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I got a few quotes from Tesla for some cars in stock with 2-5K miles on them and the discount was $5-12K, however, they didn't have the new sensor hardware and that's what I've really been waiting for. My 2013 Accord has ACC and I use it almost all the time.

The discounts I was referring to was direct through the previous owner, not Tesla.



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I grew up in New York state and know how to drive in the snow - however, I don't think I've ever driven a RWD vehicle in the snow... only FWD and AWD.

How's it really handle in the ice and snow?

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We went through one of the worst winters last year for ice and snow. Never got stuck once and didn't get my snow tires until early Feb. Car handles very well in the snow and because of the weight I never got stuck once or even close.

If I weren't in snow country, I'd buy a RWD lightly used right now at a great price. Go for that. Maybe you'll end up with a P85 or P85+ for what you were expecting to pay for the S85D.

I have a p85 RWD and trudge up to about 2500' from sea level to what amounts to about 3' of snow in the winter. I do have snow tires on. But I never once got stuck or even close to it the car handled fantastic! So...if you don't need the dual motors I'd save the $.

Main regards to the tires until the dual motors been out we really don't know. I mean there are people out there with P's that have gotten 30,000 miles + on their primacys I know them. And then 10,000 miles on their primacys. Drivin styles DOES matter.

yobig'D' says go with the 'D'. you'll get your autopilot features, but that extra range due to the 'D' and the potential for tires wearing more evenly and lasting longer is alone worth the upgrade.

First 4 cars FWD (Renault, Citroen, Mercury Mystique, VW Passat). 5th car AWD (Audi A4), 6th RWD (Merc SLK 280). After that I decided AWD as default (G37x, 335 xDrive, 650 xDrive).

It is not about living in Minnesota and snow, it is the composure and road-handling that you get from AWD. Assuming AWD is well executed (no one on this forum had a real test drive yet, so all speculations at this time), AWD should feel more planted, and more responsive.

yobigd20 said:

yobig'D' says go with the 'D'. you'll get your autopilot features, but that extra range due to the 'D' and the potential for tires wearing more evenly and lasting longer is alone worth the upgrade.

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Yeah but $5k is worth about 5 sets of 19" tires on the Model S. Even if you didn't wear tires on the 'D' that is ~200,000 miles of wear before you hit the breakpoint. Heck the extra weight on the 'D' model might negate any sort of tire wear savings anyways.

If you don't need AWD (and your aren't taking trips right at the Model S range limit) then don't bother paying the extra.

I have no regrets about having RWD.

Unless its a P85D, I wouldn't bother. AWD is a huge benefit when transferring almost 700 horsepower to the ground for maximum traction, especially from a stop so it makes total sense there- just like with a Nissan GT-R.

Now, if you are always driving in snow and even rainy areas, I can see AWD being a benefit. If you live in Southern California like me, AWD is pointless unless wanting it purely for performance reasons.. which brings me back to it being pointless in a standard 85. That car doesn't have enough power to warrant a need for extra traction with AWD.

If I was getting an 85 right now, I wouldn't spend the extra on AWD unless you live in a climate that requires it.

mattreidy said:

I grew up in New York state and know how to drive in the snow - however, I don't think I've ever driven a RWD vehicle in the snow... only FWD and AWD.

How's it really handle in the ice and snow?

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RWD is fine in the snow as long as you have good snow tires.

If I were in your position, living somewhere where there is real winter weather, and could afford the extra $s for the D I would definitely get it for the extra range and the likely even better handling in snow/ice.

The mileage comparison now on the web page is s85 gets 285 miles at 65mph. The s85d gets 295 miles at 65mpg. No EPA numbers yet. I was excited about the initial implied 30mile improvement. Not so much about 10 miles.

brkaus said:

The mileage comparison now on the web page is s85 gets 285 miles at 65mph. The s85d gets 295 miles at 65mpg. No EPA numbers yet. I was excited about the initial implied 30mile improvement. Not so much about 10 miles.

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Personally, I think the extra range is a BS marketing tactic.

Maybe if you are babying the accelerator the whole time, where the car mostly uses the rear motor and uses the front motor for extra regen purposes. BUT- most of the time you want to accelerate a bit and the front motor is going to be tapping into that same 85kw battery pack that the RWD/single motor cars have used. Powering two motors to accelerate is going to use more power, plain and simple. Enough power that regen wont compensate for it if you like to drive more aggressively than an 85 year old grandma.

I am calling it now, the D versions are going to have worse overall average energy usage in the real world than the RWD/single motor counterparts.

As you can see in my Sig, I'm also in Virginia.

I've had no issues driving RWD in Virginia snow. If the snow is so bad that RWD becomes a problem, people won't be driving anyway (not much in the way of plows around these parts!)

The range difference is fairly insignificant, and will become even less so as more Superchargers appear. 10 miles of range is literally just 2 minutes at a supercharger, and the times where you will need a few extra miles are very, VERY rare.

I'd skip the dual. Doesn't seem to make sense for you. Yes, tire wear will decrease some, but you can always rotate your rear tires to fronts (as long as you don't have a staggered setup) and improve that situation. With proper alignment, non-performance driving, and especially if you get a coil suspension or leave your air suspension on "normal" instead of low, rear tire wear will not be much of an issue.

WarpedOne said:

When time comes to replace the tires, you'll regret abandoning the D.
And don't say we don't know, we know - D wont be shredding the rears as S does.
Your grandma driving style won't help.

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Even though you might save on Rear tire wear - there are negatives to AWD and tires as well. If you get a flat that can't be repaired or need a new tire for some reason you might have to replace all 4 tires if there are more than a few thousand miles....I always wanted AWD until I had this happened to me and it quickly outweighed any positives (in addition to lower gas mileage on an ICE).

If you are thinking of backing off D, I'd strongly suggest you look for an almost new P85 that meets your spec for sale on this site or some other (i.e., cars.com, etc).

Lots of people want to go the other direction and are selling their P85 or P85+ to get a D. Some of whom just took delivery. So there are quite a few almost new 85s out there. You should be able to a) get a car sooner, and b) save a chunk of money.

Of course, I totally understand wanting a NEW NEW car. If you go that way, I would spend a few extra pence and get the D. I believe it will enhance resale value.

golfski said:

Even though you might save on Rear tire wear - there are negatives to AWD and tires as well. If you get a flat that can't be repaired or need a new tire for some reason you might have to replace all 4 tires if there are more than a few thousand miles....I always wanted AWD until I had this happened to me and it quickly outweighed any positives (in addition to lower gas mileage on an ICE).

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You're ill-informed. Quoting http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=18
"Some vehicle manufacturers recommend that all tires maintain the same rolling radius and circumference, while others suggest that all tire circumferences remain within 1/4- to 1/2-inch of each other. Other vehicle manufacturers recommend that all four tires remain within 2/32-, 3/32- or 4/32-inch of each other, or within 30% of each other in relative remaining tread depth."