SolidEnergy SPIL LiOn batteries

Derek Vinyard · Nov 3, 2014

SolidEnergy SPIL (merge)

reading TM's company news this morning on BBG...
I have scanned the FT article and hope you can read it. Otherwise, let me know and I'll find another way posting it.
some bullet points:

- SolidEnergy's new Li-battery generation coming in two years
- about 20% cheaper than existing batteries
- can triple the driving range
- significantly lower its costs
- independent experts saying prototype cells can store more than twice as much as conventional cells
- SolidEnergy's batteries should be found in EVs by 2nd half of 2016
- preliminary discussions with Apple and Tesla Motors

High Energy Density: Solid Polymer Ionic Liquid (SPIL) electrolyte enables ultra-thin lithium metal anode, and improves the cell-level energy density by 50% compared to graphite anodes and 30% compared to silicon-composite anodes.
Manufacturing: Can be manufactured using existing Li-ion manufacturing facility, leveraging mature infrastructure.

when I recall the recent interview in the german "manager magazin online" with Jerome Guillen, TM's vice president, he said that the batteries at the GF won't be totally different from the current ones being used in the Model S, but rather optimized - also in terms of their performance.

an additional strategic partner for the GF ?

Cattledog · Nov 3, 2014

It will be interesting to see if this is one of the weekly battery claims Elon says that receive, or if this one has legs. He said at the recent MIT forum that all these claims often have some amazing performance metric but also significant drawbacks - so maybe long range or many charge cycles, but slow charge times or high cost (not this particular claim, just a made-up example). I hope this one does have legs, and if it does, I hope Tesla locks it up. If not (again) would be another indicator that Tesla's moat is as wide as before.

Derek Vinyard · Nov 3, 2014

SolidEnergy Systems
a start-up company founded in 2012.

http://www.solidenergysystems.com/

a new article in the Financial Times.
seems they had some dicussions with TM already.

Johan · Nov 3, 2014

Derek Vinyard said:
reading TM's company news this morning on BBG...
I have scanned the FT article and hope you can read it. Otherwise, let me know and I'll find another way posting it.
some bullet points:

- SolidEnergy's new Li-battery generation coming in two years
- about 20% cheaper than existing batteries
- can triple the driving range
- significantly lower its costs
- independent experts saying prototype cells can store more than twice as much as conventional cells
- SolidEnergy's batteries should be found in EVs by 2nd half of 2016
- preliminary discussions with Apple and Tesla Motors

when I recall the recent interview in the german "manager magazin online" with Jerome Guillen, TM's vice president, he said that the batteries at the GF won't be totally different from the current ones being used in the Model S, but rather optimized - also in terms of their performance.

an additional strategic partner for the GF ?

Do you know if SolidEnergy is traded somewhere publically? Or if they are tradeable indirectly somehow? If there's anything more to this I'll need to look in to it as obviosly batteries will be a huge thing not only for cars but for a wide range of applications...

TD1 · Nov 3, 2014

Johan said:
Do you know if SolidEnergy is traded somewhere publically? Or if they are tradeable indirectly somehow? If there's anything more to this I'll need to look in to it as obviosly batteries will be a huge thing not only for cars but for a wide range of applications...

Oct. 12, 2014: SolidEnergy demonstrates 1337 Wh/L volumetric energy density in a 2Ah pouch cell (a world record).

Dropbox - SE_press_release_10232014.pdf

nerds

JRP3 · Nov 3, 2014

An important point to quiet all the "Gigafactory is already outdated" nonsense that may popup.

Manufacturing: [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Can be manufactured using existing Li-ion manufacturing facility, leveraging mature infrastructure.[/FONT]

http://www.solidenergysystems.com/technology.html

chickensevil · Nov 3, 2014

TD1 said:
Dropbox - SE_press_release_10232014.pdf

nerds

"SolidEnergy has worldwide exclusive license on the MIT patent" well that sucks... so it isn't even THEIR patent... I hate it when people do this... Now they are going to extort people for money in order to make use of a product that they didn't even technically invent...

Derek Vinyard · Nov 3, 2014

chickensevil said:
"SolidEnergy has worldwide exclusive license on the MIT patent" well that sucks... so it isn't even THEIR patent... I hate it when people do this... Now they are going to extort people for money in order to make use of a product that they didn't even technically invent...

unfortunately I can't open the PDF TD1 provided. But the FT article says "Dr Qichao Hu, who developed the device with his former professor, Donald Sadoway, a prominent battery expert at the MIT." I would rather see this a cooperation between MIT and the company. Obviously the IP lies at MIT.

anon · Nov 3, 2014

chickensevil said:
"SolidEnergy has worldwide exclusive license on the MIT patent" well that sucks... so it isn't even THEIR patent... I hate it when people do this... Now they are going to extort people for money in order to make use of a product that they didn't even technically invent...

One of the founders actually invented the technology, but he was at MIT while he did it...so the patent has his name on it, but is owned by MIT and hence must be licensed from MIT.

Johan said:
Do you know if SolidEnergy is traded somewhere publically? Or if they are tradeable indirectly somehow? If there's anything more to this I'll need to look in to it as obviosly batteries will be a huge thing not only for cars but for a wide range of applications...

SolidEnergy is a new startup, so it is not a public company.

Zzzz... · Nov 3, 2014

chickensevil said:
"SolidEnergy has worldwide exclusive license on the MIT patent" well that sucks... so it isn't even THEIR patent... I hate it when people do this... Now they are going to extort people for money in order to make use of a product that they didn't even technically invent...

That is a spinoff. Common practice, and in absolute majority of cases such companies are founded by people who invented technology in the lab. Majority of such startups never see the light of being profitable. One way or another they are very much motivated to develop technology into commercially viable product. Will SolidEnergy be able to do it? I doubt it but their CEO project tons of optimism. And it indeed looks like they've got some chance at developing commercially successful product.

chickensevil · Nov 3, 2014

Derek Vinyard said:
unfortunately I can't open the PDF TD1 provided. But the FT article says "Dr Qichao Hu, who developed the device with his former professor, Donald Sadoway, a prominent battery expert at the MIT." I would rather see this a cooperation between MIT and the company. Obviously the IP lies at MIT.

tentonine said:
One of the founders actually invented the technology, but he was at MIT while he did it...so the patent has his name on it, but is owned by MIT and hence must be licensed from MIT.

SolidEnergy is a new startup, so it is not a public company.

Zzzz... said:
That is a spinoff. Common practice, and in absolute majority of cases such companies are founded by people who invented technology in the lab. Majority of such startups never see the light of being profitable. One way or another they are very much motivated to develop technology into commercially viable product. Will SolidEnergy be able to do it? I doubt it but their CEO project tons of optimism. And it indeed looks like they've got some chance at developing commercially successful product.

Fair enough, I guess I glossed over that point. I assume then if they want to be successful they will push this out at a fair price. As long as Tesla is able to progress toward 100$/kW I don't care how they get there

EldestOyster · Nov 3, 2014

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from something brought to us by Dr. Hu

davecolene0606 · Nov 3, 2014

The 3 items that get my attention are that it will be ready "as early as 2016" " for consumer electronics" and... It can be manufactured using conventional existing processes. and... while the energy per weight is impressive we don't know the $per wh figure at all...

So, maybe by 2016 it'll be ready for prime time in consumer electronics (not quite BEV's) and it can be made up on current manufacturing lines.

Not holding my breath yet but wonder if the chemistry/ anode tech can be adapted to cylindrical form factor (can it manufactured @ gigafactory) and how much longer than 2016 will it take for a BEV grade version to show up?

Not really holding my breath here. But its encouraging to see possibilities!

Zzzz... · Nov 4, 2014

davecolene0606 said:
the energy per weight is impressive

They made gravimetric energy density/specific energy numbers publicly available? If yes I very much want to know! So far I only saw few numbers referring to volumetric energy density...

we don't know the $per wh figure at all...

This one is known - SE targets $100 per kWh. Check interview with SE CEO, she is very optimistic and do give an impression that she really believes SE could reach that price point with this formulation and production techniques.

chickensevil · Nov 4, 2014

Zzzz... said:
They made gravimetric energy density/specific energy numbers publicly available? If yes I very much want to know! So far I only saw few numbers referring to volumetric energy density...

This one is known - SE targets $100 per kWh. Check interview with SE CEO, she is very optimistic and do give an impression that she really believes SE could reach that price point with this formulation and production techniques.

The way I see that one, if this is viable tech and is at 100$ then we will just switch to this tech sooner than the assumed "less than 10 years" timeframe previously given out by Tesla. I think we only need to hit 150$/kW in order to be comfortably "cheaper" than an ICE engine... which is really what they are trying to drive the prices down to. At 100$ or even 130$ (the number Jerome recently threw out as a possibility) and it will be the end of ICE as we know it. Any other advancement and it just propels us forward faster.

Search

SolidEnergy SPIL LiOn batteries

Derek Vinyard

Member

Attachments

Cattledog

Active Member

Derek Vinyard

Member

Attachments

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!

TD1

Member

JRP3

Hyperactive Member

chickensevil

Active Member

Derek Vinyard

Member

anon

Guest

Zzzz...

Member

chickensevil

Active Member

EldestOyster

Member

davecolene0606

Member

Zzzz...

Member

chickensevil

Active Member

Similar threads