Just wondering if anyone knows whether or not CHAdeMO charging will become more popular in the US? Is it worth buying the Tesla CHAdeMO adaptor?
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Will CHAdeMO chargers catch on in the US?
- Thread starter franknesss
- Start date
Well in Europe and Canada, their CHAdeMO network is quite robust. In Europe, they have around 8 manufacturers that take advantage of the quick charging. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i recall that many of our Model S owners on this forum who live in Canada mainly use CHAdeMO chargers.
Seeing how it's becoming popular elsewhere, I'm thinking it could be a similar trend in the near future? I just never really hear many people from the US needing or having much use for the CHAdeMO adaptor.
Seeing how it's becoming popular elsewhere, I'm thinking it could be a similar trend in the near future? I just never really hear many people from the US needing or having much use for the CHAdeMO adaptor.
mrElbe
Active Member
Browsing the Canada Forum, Canadian Model S owners in lieu of Superchargers use Sun Country chargers with J1772 adapter. No CHAdeMO.
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
Hard to predict how CHAdeMO will pan out but it is fairly popular in some parts of the world, particularly in Japan. You can browse the current availability of CHAdeMO chargers in the U.S. and elsewhere via PlugShare (web or mobile app) and get an idea of how often they're already used from those that log check-ins.
randompersonx said:
Well, the Nissan LEAF already outsells the Tesla Model S, but that's not surprising given the huge difference in price.
franknesss said:
Oh, they're quite popular among non-Tesla owners, at least in California: again, take a look at Plugshare to see all the logging of usage by mostly Nissan LEAF owners. At prime times, you'll often see more than one person waiting to use a CHAdeMO quick charger – which is one of the problems. These tend to only current be installed with one or two stalls, and they often have failures (particularly the Blink's) – look on Plugshare also to see the complaints on some stations that remain non-functioning for many weeks.
I would prefer to see Tesla's Superchargers win out given the faster charge capabilities and the availability of many connections at one site (rather than just one or two) and the smart design of stacking 10 kWh chargers that can fall back to lower power if there any failures (rather than just offering no charge at all). Hopefully other auto manufacturer's will agree to buy into the system.
On the other hand, I'm looking forward to Tony Williams' work on getting a CHAdeMO plug installed in our Toyota RAV4 EV's (Tesla battery and drivetrain) for making longer excursions reasonably convenient beyond its normal 130 mile range. Tesla Supercharger compatibility would be even nicer (with appropriate payment into the Supercharger system) but there does not appear to be any path to making that happen with Tesla at this time.
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Short term yes. We already see a lot of them installed and eVGo seem to support it and install many of them. White it isn't as fast as superchargers, it is still 7-15 times faster than most normal Level 2 chargers. That's significant. It is about as fast as all current EVs can charge. Most EVs currently have around 20-25 kWh batteries. Charging at 50 kW (that's the speed of most current CHAdeMo chargers) is 2C charging. That's really pushing it.
Long term things might change. Tesla opened the patents up and according to an article, BMW already showed interest in working with Tesla on the charging infrastructure. Since it's basically an 'open standard' there is hope more manufacturers will join. A solid, fast, reliable and most of all wide spread charging infrastructure is in every manufacturer's interest.
In the end public charging stations will never be as important and big as gas stations are now. Gas car could only be refilled at gas stations. So everyone needed one for 100% of all miles driven. With an EV, the majority of charging is done at home which is the most convenient. Home charging covers 80% of all traffic. Only the rest is where people will need public chargers. So the need for public chargers will be limited.
Long term things might change. Tesla opened the patents up and according to an article, BMW already showed interest in working with Tesla on the charging infrastructure. Since it's basically an 'open standard' there is hope more manufacturers will join. A solid, fast, reliable and most of all wide spread charging infrastructure is in every manufacturer's interest.
In the end public charging stations will never be as important and big as gas stations are now. Gas car could only be refilled at gas stations. So everyone needed one for 100% of all miles driven. With an EV, the majority of charging is done at home which is the most convenient. Home charging covers 80% of all traffic. Only the rest is where people will need public chargers. So the need for public chargers will be limited.
MarcG
Active Member
I for one can't wait to get a hold of a ChaDeMo -> Model S adapter. Does anyone know when they're supposed to be released to the public (not just beta testers)?
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
At $450 I'll probably buy one given there are a number of them up here in the Pacific Northwest. They are also in places that augment the super charger network fairly well. So to a certain degree I think they've already caught on up here.
Remember charging at a Chademo station will cost you plenty, and superchargers are free. If I was in California, land of the superchargers, I wouldn't buy a Chademo adapter unless I needed it to go somewhere that I couldn't get to with superchargers and destination charging. It's not fast enough for charging while traveling and it's likely faster than you need at a destination, so there would have to be a unique case made for it by each individual.
While this is true for Tesla cars, there are many more EVs out there. None of them has access to Superchargers, yet almost all of them can use CHADeMo chargers. The number of EVs that can use CHADeMo far outnumbers Tesla. In Los Angeles the number of CHADeMo vs Superchargers is 4 to 80. So the answer to the original questions is clearly 'yes'. Not only will it catch on, they outnumber Superchargers by far already and the demand for them is getting higher every day. The CHADeMo standard isn't limited to 50 kW. So far they haven't installed bigger ones because no car on the street can handle more than 50 kW.
Paying for a CHADeMo charger isn't that bad. During the day I pay an average of 28 ct for one kWh. Charging for one hour at 50 kW is the equivalent of $14 just in pure electricity. At eVGo's CHADeMo stations I pay $17 for one hour. That's really a fair price.
In the US, not a chance.
The problem with Chademo in the US is that it doesn't charge fast enough for a long-range EV. And for a short-range EVs like the Leaf, you can't put enough chargers in to make the cars viable for long-distance travel and they'd be too painful to use that way even if you could.
Chademo is a nice solution for densely populated areas where people are going to drive short-ranged "city" EVs.
The US needs a solution that support long-range cross-country driving through lightly populated areas. And to be practical, that solution can't require putting in thousands of chargers -- that's too expensive.
Supercharging is a much better fit for the US than Chademo. Chademo will work in areas where L2 charging is hard to find and Chademo is available or in a few high-traffic corridors. One we get more L2 and Supercharging in place, Chademo installs will slow down and stop ... except maybe at Nissan dealerships.
And when 500 mile EV's are common, no one will need Chademo. They will either L2 charge overnight or charge while taking a break on the highway at a >135KW Supercharger.
The problem with Chademo in the US is that it doesn't charge fast enough for a long-range EV. And for a short-range EVs like the Leaf, you can't put enough chargers in to make the cars viable for long-distance travel and they'd be too painful to use that way even if you could.
Chademo is a nice solution for densely populated areas where people are going to drive short-ranged "city" EVs.
The US needs a solution that support long-range cross-country driving through lightly populated areas. And to be practical, that solution can't require putting in thousands of chargers -- that's too expensive.
Supercharging is a much better fit for the US than Chademo. Chademo will work in areas where L2 charging is hard to find and Chademo is available or in a few high-traffic corridors. One we get more L2 and Supercharging in place, Chademo installs will slow down and stop ... except maybe at Nissan dealerships.
And when 500 mile EV's are common, no one will need Chademo. They will either L2 charge overnight or charge while taking a break on the highway at a >135KW Supercharger.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I agree with some of the suggestions. Only buy one if you actually can find stations on plugshare nearby you know you will use. You also have to balance this with whether superchargers alone would satisfy your needs.
Don't bank on it "catching on" or not, as there might not be any stations that are useful to you specifically. The pace in the US has been relatively slow compared to Japan and Europe. Right now CHAdeMO is "de facto" in Japan, but CCS is actually growing much faster than CHAdeMO in Europe.
Don't bank on it "catching on" or not, as there might not be any stations that are useful to you specifically. The pace in the US has been relatively slow compared to Japan and Europe. Right now CHAdeMO is "de facto" in Japan, but CCS is actually growing much faster than CHAdeMO in Europe.
Thanks for all the feedback. I was considering purchasing the adaptor, however, i haven't really ran into the need to charge on anything else other than home and the superchargers. The only time I saw one was at the palm springs outlet, and they did have a eVgo CHAdeMO there, but it was out of order at the time =P
at $450, it's not too expensive, but it's not dirt cheap either.
at $450, it's not too expensive, but it's not dirt cheap either.
How much of the CCS growth is combo chargers?
The cost of full-blown DC chargers is large enough that + protocol + cable is not that significant, and I envision combos being common as long as the majors players continue to stick to their standards.
The question I was answering was from a Tesla owner in California asking if was worthwhile buying the Chademo adapter. So my answer was specific to Tesla. How Chademo benefits other EVs isn't relevant to whether the OP should buy a Chademo adapter.
Yep. Personally, (also living in CA), given the long range of the S and Supercharging and L2 availability, I'd buy Chademo only if I was going to do some travelling in places where L2 was hard to find, SC was far away and I could confirm Chademo was available and usable.
Vacationing on the Oregon coast might fit that criteria. Not much L2 there and the SC's are inland along I-5. I'm not sure where else but I haven't looked hard.
Vacationing on the Oregon coast might fit that criteria. Not much L2 there and the SC's are inland along I-5. I'm not sure where else but I haven't looked hard.
I would only get it if I can confirm that it will work here: 7-11 | San Bernardino, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare
This is an extremely convenient stop en route to Big Bear from San Diego and although it's not needed in Summer, a 30 min stop to get 50-70 miles is great insurance if you are going up the mountain at subzero temp with a car full of kids and luggage using snow chains!!! Usually I arrive with about 100 miles left of range and going up the mountain burns about 60-70 of that. In winter it is too close for comfort.
This is an extremely convenient stop en route to Big Bear from San Diego and although it's not needed in Summer, a 30 min stop to get 50-70 miles is great insurance if you are going up the mountain at subzero temp with a car full of kids and luggage using snow chains!!! Usually I arrive with about 100 miles left of range and going up the mountain burns about 60-70 of that. In winter it is too close for comfort.
There's plenty of free Chademo stations in Miami. When the adapter was $1k, it wasn't worth it, but might be worth the $450 if you can tolerate spending an hour plus at a Nissan dealership or at this location that I helped install: Pinecrest Gardens
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