Trade In for P85?

CaptDaveHowe · Oct 4, 2014

I currently own a P60 (P4001) and have had the car for about 1 1/2 years. It was last year where I found that I missed an important part regarding options when ordering my P60. I was on I95 in Connecticut and pulled into Milford to a fairly new Tesla supercharger platform. Upon plugging my P60 in, a display on my dashboard popped up indicating that the car was not configured for use with a supercharger. I called Tesla and via the airwaves the car was configured to accept the supercharger and instead of just a one time courtesy charge, I paid $2500 to have the option to accept a supercharger installed permanently.

This brings up a couple of points to consider. First, the cost difference from a P60 to a P85 was not really $10,000, but $7,500 (the supercharger option is standard on a P85). Second, if I do wish to use my MS for long trips, even with the supercharger option, it is a bit difficult with a P60. I have really enjoyed my P60 and for the most part it is fine for the distances I travel. However, I am not considering using it many times because of the limitation it has.

So, the question that keeps coming up in my mind is, is it worth considering a trade in to move up to the P85?. And is so, is there a trade in program from Tesla? My MS , as noted has the supercharger option installed and has recently had all of the updates performed / installed by Tesla in Syosset NY. Any ideas?

lolachampcar · Oct 4, 2014

I believe you will find that Tesla is like any other auto sales outlet in that they will give you wholesale for your MS60 (do not think they made a P 60). The decision in these cases usually revolves around first setting your decision point for upgrading to the MS 85 then choosing the paths to examine. You can sell your car outright but, depending upon your state, loose the sales tax credit for the trade in. In Florida, this is 6% which helps offset the difference between getting wholesale on a trade in or doing a retail sale to maximize the amount you get for your MS 60. Retail sales require you actually sell your car which some people prefer to avoid. The other question you can consider is going loaner/demo versus new on the MS 85.

BlueTan85 · Oct 4, 2014

Also, I don't believe the cost difference between a 60 and a "P85" is $10,000 or even $7,500.

Perhaps a standard 85, but not a P85.

ACDriveMotor · Oct 4, 2014

If I were you in this situation I might consider S60 for an S85 loaner/demo. Cheaper than a P but still gets you range + SC. A 60 to 85 will still give you a nice performance boost.

christomoko72 · Oct 5, 2014

Wow! Im in the exact same boat S60 picked up last March 2013 wirh 32k miles. I was just playing with the Tesla configurator and priced out how much more it would have cost witht he same package but in an s85. It came out to be roughly $8.5k. And after looking At the torque curves, i definately should have gotton the 85. You get a slight bump in torque, but whats more importnat is that the torque continues well past that of the s60 or even p85. Albeit the p85 begins at a much higher torque value it begins its decline well before s85.

CaptDaveHowe · Oct 6, 2014

BlueTan85 said:
Also, I don't believe the cost difference between a 60 and a "P85" is $10,000 or even $7,500.

Perhaps a standard 85, but not a P85.

Meant standard MS60 to MS85. Back in 2013 the price difference was $10,000.

- - - Updated - - -

I did figure that trading up with a Tesla is probably not much different tha with any other vehicle. In NY, the sale tax is 8.65 %, so it certainly comes into play. I guess what I am hoping is that there may be some consideration from Tesla because of the fairly new entrance of the product into the market.

What really needs to be reasoned out in my mind is whether or not it will be worth doing so.

- - - Updated - - -

I wasn't aware that there was a program to sell loaner MS85's

scottm · Oct 8, 2014

christomoko72 said:
after looking At the torque curves, i definately should have gotton the 85. You get a slight bump in torque, but whats more importnat is that the torque continues well past that of the s60 or even p85. Albeit the p85 begins at a much higher torque value it begins its decline well before s85.

Where is this to look at? I though P was better than S in every way ;-) You telling me my little S85 has better midrange than a mighty P?

tdiggity · Oct 9, 2014

You have a low VIN like I do, so here's some other things to consider:

* Fit and Finish is better on newer cars. Panels are better aligned.
* Is your battery pack an A or B pack? Upgrading gets you a supposedly more stable "D" pack.
* Would you like some of the new features like motor folding mirrors, parking sensors, etc?
* higher resolution screen (drivers screen) and possibly newer faster processor.

redi · Oct 10, 2014

So what is a good approach on valuing a MS for sale?

I'm toying with putting my 1-yo P85+ (11.5K miles) on the market, taking a break and considering a P85D after the initial deliveries subside.

bob_p · Oct 11, 2014

A Certified Pre-Owned program is apparently going to be announced (soon?).

If Tesla announces a reasonable trade-in program, allowing current Model S owners to easily trade-in their current cars for the newer models (with dual-drive and/or the autopilot features), that program would not only benefit the early owners who purchased cars lacking these major features - it would also give Tesla some cars to sell at a lower price point to people who don't want to wait for the Model 3 - and wouldn't be willing to pay full price for a new Model S.

Rather than offering a retrofit program for adding these features into existing cars (which is probably unreasonably expensive), a trade-in program would be better for everyone - and helps Tesla continue to sell more new cars. And those purchasing the trade-ins probably wouldn't have been prospects for new car purchases anyway.

Seems like a win-win for everyone...

And doing this would further reinforce brand loyalty - by giving their early customers a smooth path to benefit on Tesla's latest technologies...

redi · Oct 11, 2014

I couldn't agree with you more. There is an opportunity to do a real "lean forward" with the existing customers, something Tesla sales/marketing (or even Elon) does not seem to spend much time doing, leaving that task to the service folks. But this would/should boost sales anyway.

blox · Oct 11, 2014

I just ordered the P85D and got a Trade In quote from Tesla. My current car is a 2014 P85 delivered in March with 8k miles. List was $112,700. They offered $80k as a trade in...

redi · Oct 11, 2014

blox said:
I just ordered the P85D and got a Trade In quote from Tesla. My current car is a 2014 P85 delivered in March with 8k miles. List was $112,700. They offered $80k as a trade in...

Yikes. Looks like the only one leaning forward is you.

tdiggity · Oct 11, 2014

Low trade-in prices were expected. They'll flip that car for 90k+. The "best" part is if you sell to tesla that they will make money 3 times: when you bought the car (25% profit) when you sell it back to them (10-20%?) and lastly when you buy another one!

dhanson865 · Oct 11, 2014

scottm said:
Where is this to look at? I though P was better than S in every way ;-) You telling me my little S85 has better midrange than a mighty P?

Model S comparison table (range sort or top speed sort, same result)

S60 208 miles range 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
P85 265 miles range 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (odd duck with the lower top speed but better acceleration than the S85D)
P85D 275 miles range 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)
S85D 295 miles range 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)

in that comparison the P85 is only better than the S85 by 0-60 time and an extra 5 mph at top end. The S85 is better on price. With the new lineup I personally see no reason to consider the P85 and would instead look at it like

Model S comparison table (omitting the suboptimal P85)

S60 208 miles range 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85D 295 miles range 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)
P85 suboptimal - don't order this
P85D 275 miles range 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)

I wouldn't be surprised if they drop the P85 from the lineup come 2015.

texex91 · Oct 11, 2014

blox said:
I just ordered the P85D and got a Trade In quote from Tesla. My current car is a 2014 P85 delivered in March with 8k miles. List was $112,700. They offered $80k as a trade in...

Not surprised. From my own experience selling (P85+) the resale of Tesla is pretty bad (again milage will vary on how, who, when, what, etc you sell).

brianman · Oct 11, 2014

blox said:
I just ordered the P85D and got a Trade In quote from Tesla. My current car is a 2014 P85 delivered in March with 8k miles. List was $112,700. They offered $80k as a trade in...

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for sharing your data.

I wish the retrofit from P85 to P85D+Autopilot was as cheap as $32.7k FWIW.

- - - Updated - - -

bob_p said:
A Certified Pre-Owned program is apparently going to be announced (soon?).

If Tesla announces a reasonable trade-in program, allowing current Model S owners to easily trade-in their current cars for the newer models (with dual-drive and/or the autopilot features), that program would not only benefit the early owners who purchased cars lacking these major features - it would also give Tesla some cars to sell at a lower price point to people who don't want to wait for the Model 3 - and wouldn't be willing to pay full price for a new Model S.

Rather than offering a retrofit program for adding these features into existing cars (which is probably unreasonably expensive), a trade-in program would be better for everyone - and helps Tesla continue to sell more new cars. And those purchasing the trade-ins probably wouldn't have been prospects for new car purchases anyway.

Seems like a win-win for everyone...

And doing this would further reinforce brand loyalty - by giving their early customers a smooth path to benefit on Tesla's latest technologies...

And, like the 40/60s, Tesla has the opportunity to upgrade trade-ins if they'd like.

Rockster · Oct 11, 2014

redi said:
Yikes. Looks like the only one leaning forward is you.

ROTFL!

HankLloydRight · Oct 11, 2014

blox said:
I just ordered the P85D and got a Trade In quote from Tesla. My current car is a 2014 P85 delivered in March with 8k miles. List was $112,700. They offered $80k as a trade in...

How did you get the trade-in quote? Was it part of the ordering process? Or just filling out the form linked on the TM homepage?

blox · Oct 13, 2014

I emailed and spoke with HQ. Probably the same process as the web form. It's not part of the sales process. In my case the car was in for Service, so they could send pictures to HQ and complete the process. The car is flawless of course, but Tesla is using this as a new business opportunity flipping these gently pre-loved cars. I think it's truly unfortunate that they feel the need to make so much money coming and going.

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