'Eco-friendly' cars, consumption differences

SwedishAdvocate said:

I guess it all depends on how you view the global warming part of that decision.

What’s more important to you?

The world you (and the humans younger than you), will have to spend your lives in, or


?

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Please give me a break. Buyers of 2 ton, 400 hp limousines shouldn't try to whip out selectively the "but think of the environment" argument the very moment anyone dares to mention that other vehicles may also have some advantages. That's a bit like the likes of Al Gore flying in on a private jet to berate others over the dangers of global warming. Tesla owners probably belong to the top 1% of the global population when it comes to the consumption of natural resources. Large private homes, plenty of air miles and cruises in the Caribbean for the family. There is nothing wrong with that but there is no reason to assume that you are suddenly a great friend of the Earth just because you have switched your luxury car from petrol to electric.

Just a Reader said:

Tesla owners .... Large private homes, plenty of air miles and cruises in the Caribbean for the family.

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Making an argument against generalizing by (poorly) generalizing is a bad idea. None of your painted picture applies to me, for example.

brianman said:

None of your painted picture applies to me, for example.

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Oh, really? You still bought a two ton private vehicle, which is much less friendly to the environment than squeezing with 100 other people into an electric tram. But let's not take this thread off track. It's just a bit hypocritical by Tesla owners to bang on about the great acceleration of the Model S, just to whip out the environmental card all of a sudden when someone dares to mention that other cars are superior when it comes to delivering continuous high speed performance.

Model S vs BMW i8

Just a Reader said:

Oh, really? You still bought a two ton private vehicle, which is much less friendly to the environment than squeezing with 100 other people into an electric tram. But let's not take this thread off track. It's just a bit hypocritical by Tesla owners to bang on about the great acceleration of the Model S, just to whip out the environmental card all of a sudden when someone dares to mention that other cars are superior when it comes to delivering continuous high speed performance.

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Everything is relative. Sure, all of us could walk everywhere or take a bike but many in the US choose to buy a private vehicle. With that decision made then yes, buying electric is a step forward.

Just a Reader said:

Oh, really? You still bought a two ton private vehicle

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Yay, you got one part correct. Congratulations. Please stop generalizing because you're not very good at it and, at best, you're being merely insulting.

brianman said:

Yay, you got one part correct. Congratulations. Please stop generalizing because you're not very good at it and, at best, you're being merely insulting.

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Insulting? Buying a 2 ton private vehicle doesn't turn you into an eco-saint, even if it's electric. You may want to grow a slightly thicker skin, if you find this rather tame statement "insulting".

As to acceleration vs. high speed driving, national driving habits differ. In Germany you are more likely to be considered as an anti social driver for blasting away from a stoplight than for doing 120 mph on the motorway. A high powered sedan that goes flat after doing doing 240 miles at a rather sedate 75 mph isn't everyone's idea of a sports sedan, either.

To each his own. I wonder why some Tesla fans seem to see the need for sniping at other manufacturers that follow a different path. I would have thought that for those who are concerned about the environment any move towards a more sustainable use of resources would be welcome.

Realist?

Apparently this is difficult to understand. I'll try to piece it together for you.

Just a Reader said:

Tesla owners .... Large private homes, plenty of air miles and cruises in the Caribbean for the family.

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brianman said:

Making an argument against generalizing by (poorly) generalizing is a bad idea. None of your painted picture applies to me, for example.

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Just a Reader said:

Oh, really? You still bought a two ton private vehicle

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brianman said:

Yay, you got one part correct. Congratulations. Please stop generalizing because you're not very good at it and, at best, you're being merely insulting.

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Just a Reader said:

Insulting? Buying a 2 ton private vehicle doesn't turn you into an eco-saint, even if it's electric. You may want to grow a slightly thicker skin, if you find this rather tame statement "insulting".

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Apparently you have some eco-point to make. I don't care about your eco-point. You're insulting Model S owners in the first quote I quoted and I'd like you to stop.

It's just a fact that people in North America and in Europe have on average a much higher per capita consumption than people who are living e.g. in South America or in Africa. Within societies as a rule those with a higher disposable income have a higher consumption of resources than those with a lower income. From an ecological point of view someone who lives in a small flat in some highrise and squeezes into a train to go to work will have a smaller footprint than someone who commutes by car from his substantial house to his office. Obviously there are exceptions but that's the general rule, just as Tesla owners belong to the more affluent members of society.
The above isn't a value judgement on people, it's just as it is. I just object to the arbitrary way the ecological argument was suddenly put forward in this thread to effectively bash the product of a different manufacturer.
Perhaps the thread could return to its real topic now?

Just a Reader said:

Please give me a break. Buyers of 2 ton, 400 hp limousines shouldn't try to whip out selectively the "but think of the environment" argument the very moment anyone dares to mention that other vehicles may also have some advantages. That's a bit like the likes of Al Gore flying in on a private jet to berate others over the dangers of global warming. Tesla owners probably belong to the top 1% of the global population when it comes to the consumption of natural resources. Large private homes, plenty of air miles and cruises in the Caribbean for the family. There is nothing wrong with that but there is no reason to assume that you are suddenly a great friend of the Earth just because you have switched your luxury car from petrol to electric.

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The problem is: Nobody else is doing a serious BEV. You would have to know the individual cases of Tesla owners your comment on to know what applies to them. Plenty of us would buy BEV's in many other size categories were they available. Alas, they are not. Supporting Tesla today is probably the best bet on making a BEV future reality.

And that is probably the biggest automotive eco-point we can make today. Two tons aside, there's a future many of us are investing here. More we do, sooner there will be a one ton 500km range BEV in $10000 range instead of a 50km $50000 golf cart.

Model S owner fall on various ends of the "eco-concious" spectrum. I know some owners that have always been "earth-lovers", and have always tried to minimize their footprint, and never spent much money on luxuries UNTIL they splurged on a Model S. I know Model S owners that have solar panels to charge their cars, and I also know Model S owners that do indeed have multiple luxury cars, sports cars and private planes.

The fact of the matter is that TMC is a diverse (and for the most part, accepting and welcoming) community. The Model S is such a great car for so many reason, it has brought together people from all sides of the economic and political spectrum.

Please try to respect this community. Except for the occasional judgmental posting here on the forum, everyone I've met in person has been a real joy. Maybe you might consider coming to TMC connect next year to get a sense of what I've experienced first hand.

Just a Reader said:

Please give me a break. Buyers of 2 ton, 400 hp limousines shouldn't try to whip out selectively the "but think of the environment" argument the very moment anyone dares to mention that other vehicles may also have some advantages. That's a bit like the likes of Al Gore flying in on a private jet to berate others over the dangers of global warming. Tesla owners probably belong to the top 1% of the global population when it comes to the consumption of natural resources. Large private homes, plenty of air miles and cruises in the Caribbean for the family. There is nothing wrong with that but there is no reason to assume that you are suddenly a great friend of the Earth just because you have switched your luxury car from petrol to electric.

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Let's see my other car is a Prius and we have covered 98% of our electric, house and car, with solar. And i ride my bicycle to work and church at least half the time. So yes for me the environment WAS the draw to bring me to Tesla. And by the way the Roadster weighs less than an Accord.

It also appears that I am far from alone as over 55% of Tesla owners have gone to solar. Driving on Sunshine - Page 14

This is about conservation without deprivation; I agree that biking and walking are preferable but I don't alway have the time to quadruple my commute to work and there is no public transportation where I live nor is there sufficient population density to make it worth-while. There is no supply shortage for renewables and EVs... We don't need to live smaller, just smarter.

dsm363 said:

Realist?

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That was the first thing that jumped to my mind too!!! Had to read the signature twice, still think it's a nom de plume.

nwdiver said:

This is about conservation without deprivation; I agree that biking and walking are preferable but I don't alway have the time to quadruple my commute to work and there is no public transportation where I live nor is there sufficient population density to make it worth-while. There is no supply shortage for renewables and EVs... We don't need to live smaller, just smarter.

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I think both smaller and smarter would be better, but something is better than nothing.

On the other hand, something may not be enough, which I think elevates any discussion about how to best allocate resources.