-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Not sure what your point is here.
It would be nice if there were actual links to the stories so we could read them.
(The "text" is actually an image so can't even highlight and Google search.)
It would be nice if there were actual links to the stories so we could read them.
(The "text" is actually an image so can't even highlight and Google search.)
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
The image I believe shows the new stories presented for TSLA by Yahoo news in the last few days? It looks similar to what the Stocks app on the iPhone shows. I agree with Jack that there seems to be a coordinated action by shorts in the last weeks, set off by Adam Jonas' report. We will never get to see what is actually going on behind the scenes but I'm quite sure that it's probably more highly orchestrated than most would imagine. And this is from me who is usuaaly very sceptical of conspiracy theories.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Watch "Revenge of the Electric Car"... features Bob Lutz, Tesla, and others... very interesting. (Not as simple as some would posit.)
Amazon.com: Revenge of the Electric Car: Tim Robbins, Bob Lutz, Elon Musk, Carlos Ghosn, Adrian Grenier, Danny Devito, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jon Favreau, Anthony Kiedis, Chris Paine: Movies TV
Amazon.com: Revenge of the Electric Car: Tim Robbins, Bob Lutz, Elon Musk, Carlos Ghosn, Adrian Grenier, Danny Devito, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jon Favreau, Anthony Kiedis, Chris Paine: Movies TV
My point is that there is a disproportionate number of negative articles written about Tesla Motors. Secondly, the companies responsible for these articles are vested or have financial relationships with corporate interests that are divergent with the electrification of transportation.
The Los Angeles Times has maintained a lucrative business relationship with the member dealerships of NADA for years and years. I'm not criticizing their business relationship with NADA, only their objectivity in writing editorial articles regarding Tesla Motors.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Lutz is the father of the Chevrolet Volt.
"For the generalization of electric vehicles you really need three things," Lutz said. "You need cars that can go at least 300 miles on a charge. You need rapid recharging capability. And you need affordable pricing. So far, Elon Musk's Tesla has achieved two out of the three. They are a long way away from mass-market pricing.
"I always say that the electric car future is definitely coming, because batteries will accept more charge, the cost of batteries will come down, fast charging will happen," he said. "But the whole thing is five to 10 years away."
When customers can charge a car overnight to travel 400 miles and be in and out of a fast-charge station in 15 or 20 minutes, "at that point, who needs a gasoline engine?" Lutz asked.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100780809
Lutz does not love oil. He is an anti-oil hawk that supports electrification for energy independence and foreign policy reasons.
He is putting a Corvette V8 in Fisker bodies not Model S.
He is making EREV full size pickup trucks and vans through his company Via Motors.
And is involved in another electric car startup GreenTech Automotive.
I follow news concerning Tesla and overall this past month, negative articles seem to be dominating. But more than that, for last week or so Tesla news in general had a fall off, As in coverage of Tesla overall is about 1/2 of what it normally has been. There was a huge spike of news coverage when the gigafactory was announced but since then coverage has fallen tremendously. Most of the latest coverage has simply been local Nevada coverage and national coverage of Tesla is at an all time low. And yes the articles that are appearing seem to be negative.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I used to think Lutz was anti-oil. Then I met him at a conference in Seattle a few years ago. No, he's pro-GM, a global climate climate-denier, and went out of his way to make sure he did absolutely nothing that would reflect positively on any other EV manufacturer present. For instance, he required cars parked in such a way that he would only walk by GM vehicles so his picture would not be taken with a competitor's car in the background. He talked down to an audience of environmentalists, deliberately misstated facts about the Model S (price, range, and length of time to recharge).
Others on this forum were there with me. Bob Lutz is a capitalist. He is not pro-EV.
I'm more amazed by the amount of press Tesla gets period. For a small car maker, it's an impressive amount. The fact that negative articles are common is no big shock for the reasons I list below, and I've noticed that many here get upset about such articles when it's probably not worth the grief it's causing them.
In any event, the negative articles aren't a surprise for at least four reasons. First, editors love bad news, even if the bad news is largely fictitious. Second, the vast majority of reporters are incredibly lazy. Thus, they are happy to write about virtually anything that has been pitched to them, including obviously negative stories from a competitor company. Third, the competition hates competition, and they are happy to belittle the young upstart whenever possible. Fourth, Tesla doesn't seem to play the story pitching game, so it leaves the field open for others to get negative articles published more or less without response.
In any event, the negative articles aren't a surprise for at least four reasons. First, editors love bad news, even if the bad news is largely fictitious. Second, the vast majority of reporters are incredibly lazy. Thus, they are happy to write about virtually anything that has been pitched to them, including obviously negative stories from a competitor company. Third, the competition hates competition, and they are happy to belittle the young upstart whenever possible. Fourth, Tesla doesn't seem to play the story pitching game, so it leaves the field open for others to get negative articles published more or less without response.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Lutz has not changed his mind regarding oil EVs and fuel cells since about 2006 when he came aboard the EV wagon.
Bob Lutz is a capitalist, a nationalist,and pro-EV.
He talks down to and ridicules environmentalist and that does not negate his other positions.
He is pro EV not for environmentalist reasons but energy independence nationalist reasons.
Does it matter why an industrialist builds an EV and why a consumer buys an EV?
As long as they are building and buying EVs instead of ICEv?
He has worked at BMW,Chrysler and Ford. And has been a big proponent of whatever company he works for.
He founded Via motors which converts full size Chevy trucks and vans to EREVs and is on the board of directors at GreenTech Automotive which makes what they call neighborhood electric vehicles.
Someone who owns companies/major stockholder of companies that only sell EREVs/and BEVs almost by definition is pro-EV.
Do you want to fight with others in the EV camp on how many Angles can dance on the head of pin or do you want to electrify the automobile?
Dismissing,attacking,hating every automotive executive,industrialist,capitalist that does not measure up to Elon Musk will have you hating pretty much every one outside of Tesla and a few people within Tesla.
And American and the world need other companies to electrify the automobile. Tesla will never make 100M cars per year. Well at least not in the next two centuries .
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Let's be clear. He's pro his financial interests, not pro-EV. He has done nothing to further EVs in general. I had a high level of respect for Bob Lutz until I met him that day and listened to what he had to say. I didn't expect him to be Elon Musk. I also didn't expect him to completely and utterly dismiss anything that was not a product he had something to do with.
I guess the part that put me over the line was when I sat and listened to him deliberately talk down the Model S in term so range, battery life, cost, etc... and use the time to promote the Volt. It was not necessary. He was not there for that purpose and should have been above it. Being misinformed is one thing, but what he said was not a result of ignorance. It was a salesman's pitch, designed to turn you off of a competitor's car. And I was disappointed in him for that.
Please don't patronize me by assuming I expect everyone to be Elon Musk. I'm fully aware of the business world and of Bob Lutz' accomplishments. Kudos to him for that. But to cast him in the role of an EV-proponent is just flat out naive. He isn't that, not by a long shot.
I guess the part that put me over the line was when I sat and listened to him deliberately talk down the Model S in term so range, battery life, cost, etc... and use the time to promote the Volt. It was not necessary. He was not there for that purpose and should have been above it. Being misinformed is one thing, but what he said was not a result of ignorance. It was a salesman's pitch, designed to turn you off of a competitor's car. And I was disappointed in him for that.
Please don't patronize me by assuming I expect everyone to be Elon Musk. I'm fully aware of the business world and of Bob Lutz' accomplishments. Kudos to him for that. But to cast him in the role of an EV-proponent is just flat out naive. He isn't that, not by a long shot.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. Let me clarify:
Bob Lutz is a capitalist and cares about the success of the products that he is involved with, some which are EV-related.
Bob Lutz is not pro-EV and, in my experience, goes out of his way to disparage other EVs on the market.
There was another point you expressed that I think is worth reiterating...
If you have to disparage the competition to promote your own product, either you or your product is lacking (or both). In this case, I find this behavior to show "lacking" in Lutz. Promotion of the Volt doesn't require disparaging the Model S.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Agree. Vger was there in the audience also & was equally put off. I couldn't believe that someone of Lutz's stature was stooping so low. Of course he knew better. And he sounded just like the worst of the stereotypical used car salesman to me. Totally changed my opinion of him that day based on a number of things - but that was the topper.
@RobStark, Lutz is not the founder of VIA motors. He joined as chairman of the board the year after it was formed.
Similar threads
