Routing suggestions are laughably bad, at least in LA traffic.

schumonster · Sep 16, 2014

Got 6.0 recently and figured for a laugh I would be the Guinea Pig and actually try following the Navigation systems "I think this will be faster" suggestions.

Needless to say, at least in its current form those suggestions are laughably bad, and ADDED 20 min to my normal SFV to West LA commute. The system had the right idea, duck down residential streets away from major arteries to get to one of the 3 or 4 available routes thru the Sepulveda Pass, but seemed totally uninformed about the impact of cross traffic on potential routes. Following its directions led to several instances where the suggested route may have been relatively clear, but crossing or merging with the major arteries which were gridlocked was effectivly impossible, or required 5 min of waiting in a crawling cue of cars trying to merge.

Turns out the ole "in cranium" computer still out paces the advance of technology.

Anyone else toy with this "improvement" and have more positive results.

-Erik

bollar · Sep 16, 2014

That reflects my experience, exacerbated by old maps. I'm looking forward to new maps so I can really try it out.

I wonder who is the traffic partner. Navigon?

JohnQ · Sep 16, 2014

My sense is that these things are really hard to do well. The patterns of traffic are incredibly important and having knowledge of what traffic will likely do 20 minutes from now, based on experience, trumps a view based only on real time data. I'm happy to view the reds and yellows then make my own route decisions. Getting across the Hudson in the least amount of time involves many, many variables.

dsm363 · Sep 16, 2014

It says (beta) next to the traffic I believe. I'd imagine they are still working on it but it combined with Waze on my phone seems to work ok.

Kraken · Sep 16, 2014

JohnQ said:
My sense is that these things are really hard to do well.

No... It's not. It's been done for over a decade by every other major navigation system on the market. You have it display 3 options and the projected time. The user then picks based on his/her knowledge. This is a step closer because it gives the choice of 2 options, but it still doesn't even seem to let you know what the "faster suggested route" is. Also, by displaying 3 and letting the user decide, it allows the user to say "well, I have a stop to make that general direction anyway". That's something the computer will never know... not until they add multiple destination (another major missing feature). Actually, multiple destination with allowable arrival times, would be awesome, if it could optimize which order of stops you should make based on base route + traffic.

JohnQ said:
I'm happy to view the reds and yellows then make my own route decisions.

Yep... make your own decisions. Exactly, but it needs to provide the info to make your decision from. That is what is lacking.

JohnQ · Sep 17, 2014

Kraken said:
No... It's not. It's been done for over a decade by every other major navigation system on the market. You have it display 3 options and the projected time. The user then picks based on his/her knowledge. This is a step closer because it gives the choice of 2 options, but it still doesn't even seem to let you know what the "faster suggested route" is. Also, by displaying 3 and letting the user decide, it allows the user to say "well, I have a stop to make that general direction anyway". That's something the computer will never know... not until they add multiple destination (another major missing feature). Actually, multiple destination with allowable arrival times, would be awesome, if it could optimize which order of stops you should make based on base route + traffic.

Yep... make your own decisions. Exactly, but it needs to provide the info to make your decision from. That is what is lacking.

Yes, I agree, what Tesla seems to be doing is auto-selecting the fastest route. Meaning the projected time is invisible. What I'm saying is that the projected time is based on data that is either current or slightly in the past. My knowing that the 10 minute delay I experience in one place will result in a significant increase in traffic for me when I reach a highway is important. Unless the algorithm consults historic traffic patterns I'll be able to make better decisions and so the colored traffic data is sufficient for me.

Not to mention that if it routes me correctly 9 times out of 10 I'll always remember that 10th time and complain :smile:

ElSupreme · Sep 17, 2014

The navigation in my Model S (or any Navigation device, or mapping software) doesn't route me correctly assuming no traffic. I wouldn't expect it do better with traffic corrections.

jiaotong · Sep 17, 2014

Kraken said:
No... It's not. It's been done for over a decade by every other major navigation system on the market.

Just b/c someone else does it does not mean it isn't hard to do.

My neighbor is a brain surgeon, but I don't make the assumption that anyone can do it.

For a first swipe at an improvement which may be (I really don't know) home grown, it isn't bed. Perfect? No, of course not. To get something perfectly the first time is just not likely but does it really need to be perfect? It is an assist. As with any assist, in my own opinion, it is not meant to replace the driver. (same some lane changes, backing up, etc)

But maybe by building it themselves and seeing what suggestions are used and which are not they are able to get data points to make the next iteration better. With enough data points from humans overriding suggestions maybe TSLA will have a good shot at driverless cars being decent.

AmpedRealtor · Sep 17, 2014

jiaotong said:
Kraken said:

No... It's not. It's been done for over a decade by every other major navigation system on the market.

Just b/c someone else does it does not mean it isn't hard to do.

My neighbor is a brain surgeon, but I don't make the assumption that anyone can do it.

For a first swipe at an improvement which may be (I really don't know) home grown, it isn't bed. Perfect? No, of course not. To get something perfectly the first time is just not likely but does it really need to be perfect? It is an assist. As with any assist, in my own opinion, it is not meant to replace the driver. (same some lane changes, backing up, etc)

But maybe by building it themselves and seeing what suggestions are used and which are not they are able to get data points to make the next iteration better. With enough data points from humans overriding suggestions maybe TSLA will have a good shot at driverless cars being decent.

Click to expand...

My 2007 Prius gives me three routes to choose from. It lets me avoid freeways, toll roads, and private streets.

THIS IS NOT HARD TO DO!

This is embarrassing for Tesla to not be able to provide the most basic navigation functions available on cars that are 5-10 years old.

yobigd20 · Sep 17, 2014

These things will inevitably improve over time.

brianman · Sep 17, 2014

Suggestion:
When you can safely do so, use the new "Bug Report" feature in the car to give Tesla feedback on bad data or modeling.

For example, yesterday my first Bug Report of 6.0 was when navigation told me I was on a dead-end street that clearly was not.

JohnQ · Sep 17, 2014

AmpedRealtor said:
jiaotong said:

My 2007 Prius gives me three routes to choose from. It lets me avoid freeways, toll roads, and private streets.

THIS IS NOT HARD TO DO!

This is embarrassing for Tesla to not be able to provide the most basic navigation functions available on cars that are 5-10 years old.

Click to expand...

The underlying Navigon software (as implemented on other platforms) has that functionality today. The question is why Tesla does not take advantage of that capability.

Brandonm · Sep 22, 2014

I'm not sure what's going on the new navigation system, but it's routing suggestions are terrible. No matter what, it sends me on the same route down packed highways in the Seattle area. It even suggested I take a freeway exit to immediately reenter the freeway yesterday.

I wish they'd just integrated something like Waze.

Canuck · Sep 22, 2014

I just took the update last night and this morning it had a suggested route to work without even asking for nav which is a welcomed new feature. We have some major road work going on and, perhaps for this reason, it suggested an alternative route. The way it went about that route was not the best, not laughable but not good, and I didn't follow that part, but the overall suggestion of a different route was great and saved me time.

donv · Sep 22, 2014

This was my first commute with 6.0, and it basically told me the same thing Waze did. Actually, it suggested a slight shortcut (which I always do anyway) which Waze has never figured out.

SigGuy · Sep 22, 2014

The tesla navigation continues to be embarrassingly bad for a car with tech this sophisticated. My eight year old Lexus IS blows the Tesla away. I was on the freeway at 11:30PM this weekend and came upon a HUGE backup due to road construction. The Tesla didn't change a thing. Luckily my girlfriend was using Waze on her phone (she doesn't trust the car at all) and re-routed us. I just don't get how two years after rolling this car out, their big update still leaves the navigation in such pathetic shape. I don't and can't trust it AT ALL.

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Routing suggestions are laughably bad, at least in LA traffic.

schumonster

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bollar

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JohnQ

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dsm363

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Kraken

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JohnQ

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ElSupreme

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jiaotong

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AmpedRealtor

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yobigd20

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brianman

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JohnQ

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Brandonm

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Canuck

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donv

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SigGuy

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