Poll - Should Gen3 be two separate models?

FreeOfPge · Sep 16, 2014

Would it make sense if Tesla manufactured two Gen3 models not just one single model that can be maxed out?

If they manufactured two models, say Model 3 and Model 4, each having slight body panel variations and each with their own signature paint colors. Then, limit the max out options of one model, allowing the other to be maxed out. One model (limited max-out model) would be offered more-or-less with just one configuration, and limited upgrades like paint, wheels, etc...

There's an extremely wide gap between Model S's $71k base and it's $137k maxed out price. Without two or more separate models, it's likely Model 3 will have this wide price gap too. It seems contradictory to market 'a car accessible to everyone' then allow it to be configured into a $65k luxury vehicle -almost shaming customers into purchasing add-on options.

So, why not offer two separate models for Model 3?

This would give Model 3 more of an accessible feeling and still allow those who want a sportier model to get their fix.

Additionally, this would allow Tesla to make modifications as/if needed to one model without affecting the other - if the 45kw model needs a costly modification, only the 45kw model gets modified.

Notes: 45kw and $35k base price...both guesses, who knows what will be offered? Not I!

Another way to ask this question (close to the same idea but different enough to warrant a new poll): Should Model 3 be offered as a Series rather than a Model?

Kevin Harney · Sep 16, 2014

I think we all already know that there will be not only two but several vehicles based on this platform.

ElSupreme · Sep 16, 2014

Kevin Harney said:
I think we all already know that there will be not only two but several vehicles based on this platform.

I think he is talking some sort of badge engineering (although using model and not make) and not separate platform vehicles to differentiate amount spent in obvious ways.

I frown on pretty much all badge engineering attempts.

EDIT: I frown on badge engineering attempts within the same parent company. So the [Toyota 86/Scion FRS], and [Subaru BRZ] is an acceptable use. Note selling the [Toyota 86] and [Scion FRS] in the same market is something I would frown upon.

AnOutsider · Sep 16, 2014

Kevin Harney said:
I think we all already know that there will be not only two but several vehicles based on this platform.

That's what I was thinking too, but sounds like the OP meant the same vehicle, just slight differences to show that the fully optioned one that you are driving is not a "cheap car". I can kind of see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure Tesla would take the time to do something like that off the bat.

There will be folks who can afford an S or X who will opt for Model 3 because of the size and option the heck out of it. Whether or not they'll feel self-conscious about driving a "commoner model" will come down to the buyer I suppose. If Tesla notices this happening a lot, they can probably do something to differentiate (like a Golf and GTI), but again, I don't see it happening off the bat.

robby · Sep 16, 2014

Interesting psychology talk here. I'm hoping to get a Tesla X next year and my biggest concern after finances is that it will be ostentatious. I'd rather have a 3-branded model with the same space and feature set but I think the frame size on the 3 will be a dealbreaker for that.

FreeOfPge · Sep 16, 2014

The Idea is to have one model, but blur the (upgrade) lines a little, here's an example:

Model A: Only available with 45kw & tech package standard; starts at $37,000

Paint:
White or Black included…$0.00
Two Metallic colors (not available on Model B)…$750.00
Multi coat Red or White…$1,500.00

Sunroof: $2500.00

Wheels:
1) 17” cyclone wheel…$1,200.00
2) 19” wheel w/performance tires…$3,500.00

Interior:
Leather seats…1,500.00
Décor…not available
Alcantra…not available
Premium lighting…not available
Extended Napa trim…not available

Performance plus…not available
Supercharge enabled…$2,000.00
Dual chargers…$1,000.00
Tech package…included
Smart air…not available
High fidelity sound…$2,000.00
Paint armor…$850.00
…………………………………………Maximum Price for Model A: $49,350

Model B (essentially Model A w/slightly different body panels):
Available with 45kw or 65KW performance battery, tech package NOT included; starts at $35,000

Paint:
1) White or Black included…$0.00
2) Five Metallic colors (not available on Model A)…$750.00
3) Multi coat Red or White…$1,500.00

Sunroof: $2500.00
Wheels:
3) 17” cyclone wheel…$1,200.00
4) 19” wheel w/performance tires…$3,500.00

Interior:
Leather seats…1,500.00
Décor…$700.00
Alcantra…$1,500.00
Premium lighting…$1,000.00
Extended Napa trim…$2,000.00

65kwh Performance battery…$10,000.00
Performance Plus…$5,000.00
Supercharge enabled…$2,000.00
Dual chargers…$1,000.00
Tech package…$3,500.00
Smart air…$2,000.00
High fidelity sound…$2,000.00
Paint armor…$850.00
…………………………………………Maximum Price for Model B: $75,550

Model 3 · Sep 16, 2014

FreeOfPge said:
Would it make sense if Tesla manufactured two Gen3 models not just one single model that can be maxed out?

If they manufactured two models, say Model 3 and Model 4, each having slight body panel variations and each with their own signature paint colors, then limit the max out options on one model while allowing the other to be maxed out. One model would be offered more or less sold in one configuration with a few upgrades like paint and wheels.

Unfortunately, there's a stigma associated with driving a less optioned vehicle (think 40kw MS). Having two separate models could alleviate some of the stigma since one model could never be configured into either a 40 kw or a P85+ like the Model S. I hope everyone understands what is being asked here, if someone has a better way of phrasing this, please do...

Yes - two models
No - one model is fine
Not sure

What is the difference between running a cheaper version of a model vs driving a cheaper model that looks and feels almost the same?

The solution is nevertheless providing the car without the model / version badges on the car. Some choose to do so to not boast that they have an expensive version of the car, and others do it to not reveal that they have a cheap edition. Anyway the audience do not know what is the case with your car.

favo · Sep 16, 2014

Not sure who this would be intended to "protect"--the person buying the maxed out Performance Model 3 who doesn't want to be seen driving a "cheap" car or the person buying the base Model 3 who is embarrassed they haven't maxed it out. Either way, I say get over it [note, this is not directed at the OP or anyone in particular]. The Model 3 will be an excellent car, and anyone who buys one should get the configuration they are happy with (which includes what they are willing/able to pay) and not worry about what someone else is getting. Personally, when I see someone driving a Tesla, I am inclined to think highly of them, regardless of the specific options chosen.

FWIW, I will likely get a Perf Model 3 with Tech Package and other options that seem reasonable (not maxed out just because I can). I tend to keep my cars for a long time (15+ years), so I don't plan to skimp. Ultimately, it's a personal decision, and I wouldn't think less or more of someone who chooses to max/min out or anything in between.

Also, from a business perspective, I think it is a non-issue given that Model 3 will likely be production-constrained for multiple years after its release.

Raffy.Roma · Sep 16, 2014

Kevin Harney said:
I think we all already know that there will be not only two but several vehicles based on this platform.

Nice!

favo · Sep 16, 2014

Kevin Harney said:
I think we all already know that there will be not only two but several vehicles based on this platform.

Do you mean some (or all) of sedan, small SUV, coupe, convertible, etc., or just Standard, Performance, Performance+, etc. I assume the former will not be available at launch (i.e., sedan only), but the latter will (possibly not Perf+).

ItsNotAboutTheMoney · Sep 16, 2014

No. You'll check out the submodel badge on the back and when it says P3++ say "ooooooh". Doesn't hurt the 3 series one bit.

caddieo · Sep 16, 2014

One model with different versions as is being done now with the MS and its badging. The performance and luxury levels should not be pre-ordained at the factory and as long as the base model price finds favor, then each buyer can decide for himself/herself the level of performance and luxury they are emotionally, functionally, and financially comfortable with. Let the buyer establish the status. Those who are in the know and/or who have gone over the details in ordering their car do not have to be struck blind by gross external panel or structural differences or such and can readily ascertain what level of performance and luxury they are looking at. Or which paint schemes are more expensive. Of course if you are not satisfied unless you scream "look at me" there are many things you can do aftermarket. Pimpmobile anyone??

At present volume levels too many structural variations will not do the company any good. They have to establish the volume first before thinking of fragmenting the model line. Once they are big and strong, then maybe that will be the time. But I hasten to point out the danger in doing this. Remember the Cadillac Cimarron from the 80's, intended to be the premium luxury small car? It was nothing more than a gussied up Pontiac 2000 or Chevy Cavalier. That didn't last long, did it? Not just the car but also the concept.

Model 3 · Sep 17, 2014

favo said:
Do you mean some (or all) of sedan, small SUV, coupe, convertible, etc., or just Standard, Performance, Performance+, etc. I assume the former will not be available at launch (i.e., sedan only), but the latter will (possibly not Perf+).

What we know it that it will be a CUV on the Gen-III platform, probably named Model Y. It's reasonable to guess that there will be a Roadster also. Any other models or variations is as far as I know not known today, but it's reasonable to guess that Model 3 altso will have different battery options, and probably a performance version. I agree on that it may not be a P+.

Kevin Harney · Sep 17, 2014

favo said:
Do you mean some (or all) of sedan, small SUV, coupe, convertible, etc., or just Standard, Performance, Performance+, etc. I assume the former will not be available at launch (i.e., sedan only), but the latter will (possibly not Perf+).

Both. But obviously not all at release.

David_Cary · Sep 18, 2014

FreeOfPge said:
Would it make sense if Tesla manufactured two Gen3 models not just one single model that can be maxed out?

If they manufactured two models, say Model 3 and Model 4, each having slight body panel variations and each with their own signature paint colors, then limit the max out options on one model while allowing the other to be maxed out. One model would be offered more or less sold in one configuration with a few upgrades like paint and wheels.

Unfortunately, there's a stigma associated with driving a less optioned vehicle (think 40kw MS). Having two separate models could alleviate some of the stigma since one model could never be configured into either a 40 kw or a P85+ like the Model S. I hope everyone understands what is being asked here, if someone has a better way of phrasing this, please do...

Yes - two models
No - one model is fine
Not sure

Stigma - ha. That is pretty funny. Different strokes for different folks.

FreeOfPge · Sep 18, 2014

David_Cary said:
Stigma - ha. That is pretty funny. Different strokes for different folks.

I may have phrased this wrong, please read the last sentence of the post.

Here is the thing, I have only owned my car for about a month and met several other owners at a supercharger, at a service center, and recently at my home. Universally, they all love the car but the owners of the 60 kwh vehicles have on more than one occasion said, "mine is only/just the 60". Make no mistake, I don't care, in fact it's entirely possible that I'll own a 60 one day, BUT the owners have pointed this out to me and I'm sure it must happen to others as well. So when I said stigma, it was in no way meant to be hurtful, it's just an observation from real world interactions with other owners. Again, if someone has a better way of phrasing this, PLEASE help me out...

FreeOfPge · Sep 19, 2014

Here's another way to ask this question, it's close to the same idea but different enough to warrant a new poll: Should Model 3 be offered as a Series rather than a Model?

Reykjavik · Sep 20, 2014

If they are going to do multiple models, they need to be at least as different as the S and the X.

I could see as many as three versions, one being a sporty two seater (or maybe 2+2) that is light, quick, and has range like crazy, one being a family sedan, with a bench seat in the back, enough room for 5 people plus cargo, and the third being a crazy model X like people carrier with seating for 6.

I don't think dividing them int fancy vs not fancy is the way to go, if you want something nicer, grab a Model S or Model X, or include options on the Model 3.

Red Sage · Sep 25, 2014

I know that BMW has a new split in their product range between even and odd numbers. Currently the sales for BMW 3-Series and 4-Series vehicles are counted together, as a single platform in the United States of America. I don't think it is necessary for Tesla Motors to do the same.

I do believe that the Tesla Model ≡ will debut in at least three body styles. I expect they will be form factors that are deemed to be popular among the mass market. A sedan is guaranteed, a crossover is very likely, wagons are extremely popular in Europe, so I think those are all coming. There is a good chance that a minivan will be offered for those who need something larger than a wagon. Because this will be a 'world car' it is highly advised that a compact sporthatch design be offered as well, though such might not be available at the outset. It is highly unlikely that a coupe configuration will be offered from the beginning, because they don't sell well at all.

robby · Sep 30, 2014

Reykjavik said:
If they are going to do multiple models, they need to be at least as different as the S and the X.

I could see as many as three versions, one being a sporty two seater (or maybe 2+2) that is light, quick, and has range like crazy, one being a family sedan, with a bench seat in the back, enough room for 5 people plus cargo, and the third being a crazy model X like people carrier with seating for 6.

I don't think dividing them int fancy vs not fancy is the way to go, if you want something nicer, grab a Model S or Model X, or include options on the Model 3.

Do you think a 6-seater is plausible on a frame that's 20% smaller?

Poll - Should Gen3 be two separate models?

Should Gen3 have two separate models Model3/Model4

Yes - Two models

No - One model is fine

Not sure

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