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Saleen claim it is... but if they've modified the drive train, I'm pretty sure it isn't.
This thread may be of interest:
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2egltj/is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of/
This thread may be of interest:
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2egltj/is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of/
Interesting post by Fred over on Reddit: Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S? : teslamotors
"Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S?"In their most recent video, they said they don't have a agreement with Tesla.
Here is a copy-paste of Fred's article (hopefully it formats correctly):
Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S?
FRED / BLOG, NEWS, UPDATES / SALEEN, TESLA / 0 COMMENTS
Aug 24, 2014
Last week at the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, Saleen unveiled its “Foursixteen”, a tuned version of Tesla’s Model S. They displayed a production model that sported a body kit and a revisited interior. On top of the aesthetic changes, Steve Saleen, CEO of Saleen Automotive, and a company representative, Max, made quite a few claims about performance upgrades made to Tesla’s award wining sedan:
The Range
In this video Max claims that Saleen managed to increase the range of the Model S, but when asked what the range of the car actually is, he could only answer “250 miles or 350 miles… I’m not sure”. How can someone claim to have increased the range of a car that he doesn’t even know the range of? After contacting Saleen’s PR department about this issue, they made the following comment:
“We (including our representatives) have not yet released any statistics on our FOURSIXTEEN.”
The Acceleration
Steve Saleen said to USA TODAY that he “regeared [the car] for quicker acceleration” which should result in a “up to three-tenths of a second faster” zero to 60mph time. Later at the same event, he claimed that the zero to 60mph should be in the “mid to low 4 seconds“. Tesla advertised a zero to 60mph of 4.2 seconds for its P85 (the version of the Model S Saleen “tuned”) and according to a recent presentation by Javier Verdura, Director of Product Design at Tesla, the car has now a 3.7 seconds zero to 60mph time. I don’t understand how Saleen’s mid to low 4 seconds can be three-tenths of a second faster than Tesla’s already advertised 3.7 to 4.2 seconds.
The Car Displayed at Pebble Beach
Regardless of what they claim their performance upgrades can do to the car’s statistics, did they actually made these “performance” modifications to the car? In this video Max informed the interviewer that the display car’s MSRP is $194,000. Saleen uploaded its price sheet for the FOURSIXTEEN on their website which raised some questions about the display model:
All the following prices are according to Saleen’s published price sheet.
The only work done to the display car that we could visually confirmed were the body kit ($152,000 including stock P85 from Tesla), the Saleen interior ($13,300), the new brakes ($14,500) and the Colorlab paint job ($25,000) for a total of $204,800. This already doesn’t match the $194,000 figure given by Saleen’s representative and it doesn’t include all the performance options such as the new spur-gear ($6,200), new locking differential ($6,200), Saleen’s stability control system ($2,500) and new suspension ($6,000) which would bring the grand total to $225,700 or $31,700 more than the MSRP confirmed by Saleen’s representative.
After contacting Saleen’s PR department about this issue, they had the following comment:
“The FOURSIXTEEN on display at Pebble Beach did not have an MSRP or price sheet associated with the vehicle (as is required to display at the Concours d’Elegance).”
When asked, Saleen couldn’t confirm that the display model had the performance upgrades.
The Warranty
Saleen had this to say in a press statement about its warranty for the “FOURSIXTEEN”:
“Warranties are also included on all new Saleen vehicles, components, and labor. Each newly purchased Saleen FOURSIXTEEN will include a 4-year / 50,000 mile warranty to match the manufacturer backed limited warranty.”
Note that they only cover Saleen parts and labor. The rest of the vehicle, arguably the most important part; the power-train and battery pack, would be left for Tesla to cover.
In Tesla’s warranty for the Model S, they claim they will void the warranty if “any repair, alteration or modification of the vehicle, or the installation or use of fluids, parts or accessories, made by a person or facility not authorized or certified to do so.”
Is Saleen authorized or certified to do so? I asked the question to Derek Hall, Saleen’s Sales Operations Manager, and he assured me in an email that Saleen is “fully in partnership with Tesla, they [Tesla] know what we [Saleen] are doing to the car and fully back up and will not void the warranty.” This would have been reassuring if only it was true.
A spokesperson at Tesla, Alexis, confirmed that they have no involvement with Saleen.
After bringing the issue to Saleen’s PR department, they had this to say:
“Tesla is the manufacturer of the Model S sedan, which we use as a component in our FOURSIXTEEN vehicle. Our relationship is simply a seller/buyer (transactional). As with all of our current (and past) production vehicles, Saleen warranties all of our components, assemblies, calibrations, and labor. We cannot speak for other OEM’s as to how they structure their warranties.”
Within two days, Saleen went from being “fully in partnership with Tesla” to having a simple “seller/buyer” relationship. They also went from being quite sure that Tesla will not void the warranty to not being able to confirm it.
Why is this Important?
All of this could be attributed to mistakes due to simple incompetency, but here is why Saleen’s relationship with Tesla and their modifications of the Model S is Important:
In 2013, Saleen Automotive (OTC:SLNN) went public by merging with a publicly traded shell company. Since then, their stock price went from more than $1.00 per share to now less than $0.10. Earlier this year, after announcing their work on the Model S, they tried to attract more investors to their ticker by publishing ads on an investor website with landing url’s on pages promoting their work on the Tesla Model S that we now know as the Saleen FOURSIXTEEN.
On the same website, users started sharing rumours that Saleen was in partnership with Tesla. The company also announced work on an electric vehicle in partnership with AC Propulsion , which happen to be a former partner of Tesla. More and more parallels were drawn between the two companies, but rarely anything tangible.
Saleen’s financial situation is disastrous with now only $27,000 in the bank and millions in debt including several hundred thousands of loans in default. According to their last 10Q, they need to raise more money by September 30th or they might have to cease their operation.
The confusion around the FOURSIXTEEN and the “partnership with Tesla” could have been a few simple mistakes from Saleen’s staff or it might have been a desperate attempt to sell their new car at all cost in order to save the company. It’s difficult to tell. Either way, it doesn’t look pretty.
Frédéric Lambert
sources:
Derek Hall email: http://imgur.com/2abYwzG
Saleen’s PR response: https://imgur.com/GdL4TZn
Saleen FOURSIXTEEN press statement:http://media.saleen.com/2014/08/FOURSIXTEEN/
Saleen AC propulsion press statement: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...or-new-saleen-electric-vehicle-245958871.html
USA TODAY article about the FOURhttp://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/08/17/steve-saleen-tesla-model-s/14196127/
Saleen FOURSIXTEEN video: http://youtu.be/tNY6VhGzfA0?t=12m42s
Tesla Model S: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/performance
SLNN ads on Investor Hubs: http://investorshub.advfn.com/Saleen-Automotive-Inc-SLNN-26492/
Tesla Model S warranty:http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/de...ts/model_s_quick_guide_-_na_rev_d_for_web.pdf
"Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S?"In their most recent video, they said they don't have a agreement with Tesla.
Here is a copy-paste of Fred's article (hopefully it formats correctly):
Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S?
FRED / BLOG, NEWS, UPDATES / SALEEN, TESLA / 0 COMMENTS
Aug 24, 2014
Last week at the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, Saleen unveiled its “Foursixteen”, a tuned version of Tesla’s Model S. They displayed a production model that sported a body kit and a revisited interior. On top of the aesthetic changes, Steve Saleen, CEO of Saleen Automotive, and a company representative, Max, made quite a few claims about performance upgrades made to Tesla’s award wining sedan:
The Range
In this video Max claims that Saleen managed to increase the range of the Model S, but when asked what the range of the car actually is, he could only answer “250 miles or 350 miles… I’m not sure”. How can someone claim to have increased the range of a car that he doesn’t even know the range of? After contacting Saleen’s PR department about this issue, they made the following comment:
“We (including our representatives) have not yet released any statistics on our FOURSIXTEEN.”
The Acceleration
Steve Saleen said to USA TODAY that he “regeared [the car] for quicker acceleration” which should result in a “up to three-tenths of a second faster” zero to 60mph time. Later at the same event, he claimed that the zero to 60mph should be in the “mid to low 4 seconds“. Tesla advertised a zero to 60mph of 4.2 seconds for its P85 (the version of the Model S Saleen “tuned”) and according to a recent presentation by Javier Verdura, Director of Product Design at Tesla, the car has now a 3.7 seconds zero to 60mph time. I don’t understand how Saleen’s mid to low 4 seconds can be three-tenths of a second faster than Tesla’s already advertised 3.7 to 4.2 seconds.
The Car Displayed at Pebble Beach
Regardless of what they claim their performance upgrades can do to the car’s statistics, did they actually made these “performance” modifications to the car? In this video Max informed the interviewer that the display car’s MSRP is $194,000. Saleen uploaded its price sheet for the FOURSIXTEEN on their website which raised some questions about the display model:
All the following prices are according to Saleen’s published price sheet.
The only work done to the display car that we could visually confirmed were the body kit ($152,000 including stock P85 from Tesla), the Saleen interior ($13,300), the new brakes ($14,500) and the Colorlab paint job ($25,000) for a total of $204,800. This already doesn’t match the $194,000 figure given by Saleen’s representative and it doesn’t include all the performance options such as the new spur-gear ($6,200), new locking differential ($6,200), Saleen’s stability control system ($2,500) and new suspension ($6,000) which would bring the grand total to $225,700 or $31,700 more than the MSRP confirmed by Saleen’s representative.
After contacting Saleen’s PR department about this issue, they had the following comment:
“The FOURSIXTEEN on display at Pebble Beach did not have an MSRP or price sheet associated with the vehicle (as is required to display at the Concours d’Elegance).”
When asked, Saleen couldn’t confirm that the display model had the performance upgrades.
The Warranty
Saleen had this to say in a press statement about its warranty for the “FOURSIXTEEN”:
“Warranties are also included on all new Saleen vehicles, components, and labor. Each newly purchased Saleen FOURSIXTEEN will include a 4-year / 50,000 mile warranty to match the manufacturer backed limited warranty.”
Note that they only cover Saleen parts and labor. The rest of the vehicle, arguably the most important part; the power-train and battery pack, would be left for Tesla to cover.
In Tesla’s warranty for the Model S, they claim they will void the warranty if “any repair, alteration or modification of the vehicle, or the installation or use of fluids, parts or accessories, made by a person or facility not authorized or certified to do so.”
Is Saleen authorized or certified to do so? I asked the question to Derek Hall, Saleen’s Sales Operations Manager, and he assured me in an email that Saleen is “fully in partnership with Tesla, they [Tesla] know what we [Saleen] are doing to the car and fully back up and will not void the warranty.” This would have been reassuring if only it was true.
A spokesperson at Tesla, Alexis, confirmed that they have no involvement with Saleen.
After bringing the issue to Saleen’s PR department, they had this to say:
“Tesla is the manufacturer of the Model S sedan, which we use as a component in our FOURSIXTEEN vehicle. Our relationship is simply a seller/buyer (transactional). As with all of our current (and past) production vehicles, Saleen warranties all of our components, assemblies, calibrations, and labor. We cannot speak for other OEM’s as to how they structure their warranties.”
Within two days, Saleen went from being “fully in partnership with Tesla” to having a simple “seller/buyer” relationship. They also went from being quite sure that Tesla will not void the warranty to not being able to confirm it.
Why is this Important?
All of this could be attributed to mistakes due to simple incompetency, but here is why Saleen’s relationship with Tesla and their modifications of the Model S is Important:
In 2013, Saleen Automotive (OTC:SLNN) went public by merging with a publicly traded shell company. Since then, their stock price went from more than $1.00 per share to now less than $0.10. Earlier this year, after announcing their work on the Model S, they tried to attract more investors to their ticker by publishing ads on an investor website with landing url’s on pages promoting their work on the Tesla Model S that we now know as the Saleen FOURSIXTEEN.
On the same website, users started sharing rumours that Saleen was in partnership with Tesla. The company also announced work on an electric vehicle in partnership with AC Propulsion , which happen to be a former partner of Tesla. More and more parallels were drawn between the two companies, but rarely anything tangible.
Saleen’s financial situation is disastrous with now only $27,000 in the bank and millions in debt including several hundred thousands of loans in default. According to their last 10Q, they need to raise more money by September 30th or they might have to cease their operation.
The confusion around the FOURSIXTEEN and the “partnership with Tesla” could have been a few simple mistakes from Saleen’s staff or it might have been a desperate attempt to sell their new car at all cost in order to save the company. It’s difficult to tell. Either way, it doesn’t look pretty.
Frédéric Lambert
sources:
Derek Hall email: http://imgur.com/2abYwzG
Saleen’s PR response: https://imgur.com/GdL4TZn
Saleen FOURSIXTEEN press statement:http://media.saleen.com/2014/08/FOURSIXTEEN/
Saleen AC propulsion press statement: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...or-new-saleen-electric-vehicle-245958871.html
USA TODAY article about the FOURhttp://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/08/17/steve-saleen-tesla-model-s/14196127/
Saleen FOURSIXTEEN video: http://youtu.be/tNY6VhGzfA0?t=12m42s
Tesla Model S: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/performance
SLNN ads on Investor Hubs: http://investorshub.advfn.com/Saleen-Automotive-Inc-SLNN-26492/
Tesla Model S warranty:http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/de...ts/model_s_quick_guide_-_na_rev_d_for_web.pdf
ToddRLockwood
Active Member
Tesla might and should and would void their warranty on reduction gearbox if there were Saleen's gears inside.
They might have troubles voiding the warranty on PEM and/or batteries because of it.
Don't be to scared of PR talk. Is it illegal to void the warranty on part A because customer/owner did something to part B.
They would need to prove that customer/owner modification of B somehow destroyed the part A.
Can a different reduction gears cause a PEM or battery to fail? Maybe, but Tesla would need to do some explaining in court.
They might have troubles voiding the warranty on PEM and/or batteries because of it.
Don't be to scared of PR talk. Is it illegal to void the warranty on part A because customer/owner did something to part B.
They would need to prove that customer/owner modification of B somehow destroyed the part A.
Can a different reduction gears cause a PEM or battery to fail? Maybe, but Tesla would need to do some explaining in court.
kevincwelch
Active Member
That is on (potential) costumer to decide.
Saleen's products are not cars to own and drive for next 8+ years, from home to school to job to school to grocery to home to cinema to home etc. You buy 'original' Tesla for that. Or even two of them and some ice-cream for the money.
Saleen's cars are ment to be driven hard, to burn rubber way under 10k. To be faster from the line than the next guy's car. To turn heads from than the next guy's car. Shorter lifetime is not exactly planned but sacrificed.
But still that story above does not sound good, it paints desperate colors on Saleen's business. I can only hope Saleen survives to someday offer FiveSixteen4.
Saleen's products are not cars to own and drive for next 8+ years, from home to school to job to school to grocery to home to cinema to home etc. You buy 'original' Tesla for that. Or even two of them and some ice-cream for the money.
Saleen's cars are ment to be driven hard, to burn rubber way under 10k. To be faster from the line than the next guy's car. To turn heads from than the next guy's car. Shorter lifetime is not exactly planned but sacrificed.
But still that story above does not sound good, it paints desperate colors on Saleen's business. I can only hope Saleen survives to someday offer FiveSixteen4.
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