Let me start this off by saying both the wife and I love the Model S and tried to fit it into our life. Here's the problem we ran into. We live in the Omaha Metro and my family lives in Jefferson City, MO (~350 mile drive). Her's in Humboldt, IA (~150 mile drive). We were (& still are) wanting a Model S. I have a Nissan Leaf which fits perfectly in the situation I need it which it to work and back plus local weekend driving. She has an 2001 Pontiac Grand Am. She drives ~25 miles to work everyday which is within Leaf range anytime other than winter so she drives it all the time till winter. We were wanting to replace her car with the Telsa 85. We test drove it and loved it even more but here was the deal breaker to us. Spending that much on a car we would go to a 2 car home so therefore one car (the Tesla) would have to be able to do all of our long distance driving. Researching all the possible paths to my family lead me to the conclusion that a Tesla would take a minimum of 3 extra hours to complete the same drive that we currently do in a ICE car (Omaha to Topeka, KS Supercharger to Jefferson City, MO) 5 times a year minimum. 5 hour drive compared to an 8 hour drive is too long for us for one then you add the possibility of children it makes it too much of a burden. According to the Supercharger Chart there is no plans to put one in Kansas City Metro which is a big CON for us. No plans for even a CHaDEmo quick charger. We were wanting to get a Tesla before children as well because of the Federal tax credit. We wouldn't get the full credit right now because our tax liability isn't high enough so after children our tax liability will be even less thus costing us even more for a Tesla.
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Why I canceled my reservation on the Model S
- Thread starter wcfinvader
- Start date
Mycroft
Life happens
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Since you are young, on the bright side it's seems quite likely that someday down the road you'll be driving a Tesla. I agree that for now it doesn't make sense unless you trade the Leaf for a small ICE and I can see why you wouldn't want to do that.
Newscutter
Member
Looking at the Supercharger.info map it seems highly likely a Kansas City location is just a matter of time. I'd expect one there and probably another between KC and St. Louis as that East-West route gets built out.
There's always the possibility that one is in the process of being sited/built and just hasn't been discovered (which seems likely in places with low Model S ownership density).
Regarding tax credit-- don't forget there are some other ways of "artificially" raising your income in a particular year. My best suggestion would be to do a rollover into a Roth IRA from some other tax-deferred retirement account (like a 401k/403b or traditional IRA). I believe you can even do it as late as filing date (the following April) so you can size the conversion AFTER having already determined all your other tax calculations/liability. But double check me on that. At the very least you can overshoot a little and get a "free" conversion to a Roth.
3 cars/2 drivers would describe our household right now. Next driver is 14yo so it'll be a while yet. We opted to keep our '01 and '03 because they're not worth the hassle selling as they're both 100k range and residual value is so depreciated they're worth more to us than their cash value. We keep them all exercised and it builds in a certain measure of comfort because we have an "extra" car in case one or the other needs service (which is usually a DIY project for me-- and no longer as panicked and rushed as when we only had 2 cars). Insurance on the 2 old cars is minimal and when we're going to rougher parts of town or street parking, we leave the Tesla at home. Ditto road trips where charging isn't fast enough. But the Tesla goes EVERYWHERE else.
I'm not trying to talk you into or out of anything, just relaying my thoughts. I didn't see any deal breakers though.
There's always the possibility that one is in the process of being sited/built and just hasn't been discovered (which seems likely in places with low Model S ownership density).
Regarding tax credit-- don't forget there are some other ways of "artificially" raising your income in a particular year. My best suggestion would be to do a rollover into a Roth IRA from some other tax-deferred retirement account (like a 401k/403b or traditional IRA). I believe you can even do it as late as filing date (the following April) so you can size the conversion AFTER having already determined all your other tax calculations/liability. But double check me on that. At the very least you can overshoot a little and get a "free" conversion to a Roth.
3 cars/2 drivers would describe our household right now. Next driver is 14yo so it'll be a while yet. We opted to keep our '01 and '03 because they're not worth the hassle selling as they're both 100k range and residual value is so depreciated they're worth more to us than their cash value. We keep them all exercised and it builds in a certain measure of comfort because we have an "extra" car in case one or the other needs service (which is usually a DIY project for me-- and no longer as panicked and rushed as when we only had 2 cars). Insurance on the 2 old cars is minimal and when we're going to rougher parts of town or street parking, we leave the Tesla at home. Ditto road trips where charging isn't fast enough. But the Tesla goes EVERYWHERE else.
I'm not trying to talk you into or out of anything, just relaying my thoughts. I didn't see any deal breakers though.
gnelson
Member
I hope the next generation Tesla will be a better fit for your circumstances. You are wise to not over-extend your financial resources.
Given more "Bolt" news, yesterday, from a focus group shown a feaux EPA sticker for 205 miles, it looks like there will be one, or multiple, 150+ mile BEV options real soon, at prices that remain far lower than 50k. Even PHEV i3 and Volt do a number on the gas bill. I am starting to think Model X will be a more important car than Model III, given competition, but it sound like you are wise to wait. Options will only increase.
205 is a mental number. It "sells" the idea of moving to an EV.
But I would buy a 120-mile to 150-mile BEV in a heart-beat. That is well more than enough for our local driving needs. 120-mile would become 100-mile in winter and 130-mile or more in the summer. Even my own Volt (for now) gives me 45 miles of range in the summer using the ever-so-incorrect 35-mile EPA sticker. It is an "average" mileage range. Using 10.4kWh for 45 and as much as 50 miles is quite nice and I can see that the common consumer demands more. Lots more. Peace of mind more (not hobbyist convenience which has EV drivers wearing actual hats and gloves in winter - imagine that! - to avoid using the battery for heating).
150-mile is enough but that "2" is very important. It is the goal of both Tesla and the others to "get to the two!" 200 mile range is 40 kWh of usable battery capacity. That is not hard to do. But Tesla said "nobody wants it" and cancelled the MS40. In fact, I believe 40 is the perfect sweet spot that most people will buy a sub $35K EV at. Let's get this going - it's really important to have 5-10 models of 40kWH usable to the market in the near term.
3mp_kwh - I think I would say that Chevy is also doing it wrong with the implied design of a small car with more range. They need to make a 200 mile Buick family sedan or 150 mile CUV. A 200 mile Leaf-killer (ie. based on Sonic) isn't going to get the mass consumer sales they need to pull off. I might buy it if it is cheap enough - but it is not what we need. The USA is the primary EV marketplace and "we" (consumers) need CUVs and even larger SUVs to cut the real oil usage. They need to be fun and interesting and reliable. EVs are just that - more reliable than ICE. They need dealers willing to sell it and Chevy dealerships are not yet showing that they can or want to sell plug-ins.
I believe the eventual goal is a "full 20". By the year 2020, a production BEV will have 200 mile range and cost $20K without incentives. Then we have something that will sell in numbers higher than the Prius+Cruze+Dart+Fiat 500 combined. That price is very hard for an entity like Tesla to achieve. I do have to wonder if anyone can achieve that. With $100/kWh batteries and air-cooling of the batteries - that makes for a $4000 battery at 40 kWh or $5000 for a buffered 50kWh battery. That might just work to create the $20K BEV.
But I would buy a 120-mile to 150-mile BEV in a heart-beat. That is well more than enough for our local driving needs. 120-mile would become 100-mile in winter and 130-mile or more in the summer. Even my own Volt (for now) gives me 45 miles of range in the summer using the ever-so-incorrect 35-mile EPA sticker. It is an "average" mileage range. Using 10.4kWh for 45 and as much as 50 miles is quite nice and I can see that the common consumer demands more. Lots more. Peace of mind more (not hobbyist convenience which has EV drivers wearing actual hats and gloves in winter - imagine that! - to avoid using the battery for heating).
150-mile is enough but that "2" is very important. It is the goal of both Tesla and the others to "get to the two!" 200 mile range is 40 kWh of usable battery capacity. That is not hard to do. But Tesla said "nobody wants it" and cancelled the MS40. In fact, I believe 40 is the perfect sweet spot that most people will buy a sub $35K EV at. Let's get this going - it's really important to have 5-10 models of 40kWH usable to the market in the near term.
3mp_kwh - I think I would say that Chevy is also doing it wrong with the implied design of a small car with more range. They need to make a 200 mile Buick family sedan or 150 mile CUV. A 200 mile Leaf-killer (ie. based on Sonic) isn't going to get the mass consumer sales they need to pull off. I might buy it if it is cheap enough - but it is not what we need. The USA is the primary EV marketplace and "we" (consumers) need CUVs and even larger SUVs to cut the real oil usage. They need to be fun and interesting and reliable. EVs are just that - more reliable than ICE. They need dealers willing to sell it and Chevy dealerships are not yet showing that they can or want to sell plug-ins.
I believe the eventual goal is a "full 20". By the year 2020, a production BEV will have 200 mile range and cost $20K without incentives. Then we have something that will sell in numbers higher than the Prius+Cruze+Dart+Fiat 500 combined. That price is very hard for an entity like Tesla to achieve. I do have to wonder if anyone can achieve that. With $100/kWh batteries and air-cooling of the batteries - that makes for a $4000 battery at 40 kWh or $5000 for a buffered 50kWh battery. That might just work to create the $20K BEV.
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but generally speaking if your tax liability is not high enough to get the $7500 back then I don't think you should be buying the Model S as it just seems to be wayyy out of your budget. I think waiting for the Gen 3 would serve you much better financially.
As hard as it is for many of us long time reservation holder owners to admit, Model S isn't for everyone, and certainly not yet. It fits my lifestyle and (with some sacrifices) budget, but as I now have to drive between Austin and Dallas more often than expected, it is a bit of an unexpected hassle since I have a 60Kwh and Dallas destination charging sucks. That said, I am still able to make it work and the mileage reimbursement from work takes a nice chunk out of my monthly payment since there is no gas cost! But if I has the OPs situation, I either wouldn't get the MS, or would plan to rent from Enterprise 5 times per year.
Us Americans cannot get past the idea of renting a car for a long, rare trip. Yet we do not mind going and spending $500-1000 a month for years of car payments. A short distance BEV with occasional rental is very sustainable. Heck even BMW offers loaners for i3/buyers who need to occasionally drive far.
Sorry but that did sound very rude. You don't know me or my situation. I just got married a couple weeks ago and I by myself make $60k/year. I own my house outright and have no debt. We are both very careful with our money. I bought a leaf for the gas savings and we want to buy a Tesla to completely get off of ice vehicles. A model 3 would be cheaper yes I agree but what we love about the model s may not be incorporated into the model 3. 85kwh battery is a must, top safety rating is a must for ourselves and future children, and the size is perfect for our needs.
Bonaire we are not typical Americans. I alone drove 35,000 miles last year. My wife has a further commute than I did last year. For her it's either tesla or ice (not a fan of the volt) . I could see us easily putting on 40,000 miles in one year IF kansas City had a supercharger. Our other main destinations are within range where we could charge at someone's house.
bluefuego
Member
I agree you just might have to wait out the buildout for the SC network for a Model S to make sense for your travel needs, but if it is any help - a SC is supposedly in the works for Independence, MO which I believe is approximately 200 miles from Omaha (no proof of construction has been found, but from what I have heard from Tesla folks around here ground breaking should happen relatively soon). Def doable in milder weather, a bit of a stretch in the depths of winter. Columbia, MO should also follow soon thereafter. Under ideal circumstances, once Independence SC comes online, you should only need to make one SC charge for your trip to Jeff City (ie you would not have to detour through Topeka), adding only an hour or so to your trip.
No mortgage, no debt, and just newly married? Boy, you can say that again.
It's not like the last of the S's were produced last week. I'd say hold off on the purchase until it seems right for you. Maybe after the necessary Superchargers are operational it will make better sense, or maybe putting off the purchase will let you even save up a bigger kitty towards the purchase.
PeterW
Member
Not knowing the area at all I was wondering how getting a Models S would add 3 hours to your trip so I did the google thing. The Supercharger you mentioned is a detour and adds at least 40 miles to your trip. That would also require you to drive slower than you would otherwise. I did not quite come up with three hours difference (well 2 and a half to 3) but I see your point. I would be interested to know what a supercharger station on route would do for your travel time
Newscutter
Member
Well, you have to admit it's at least a little rude to nose into someone else's financials.
There are a lot more ways to measure wealth and assets than tax liability.
If you (or anyone else) is measuring your budget only by looking at a paycheck stub, you're not managing your money very well.
One thing to note is will there be children? My son was born about a year after I got married. Second child two and a half years later. It costs about a half million to raise a kid in the next 20 years. That is if you go the private school route. At $60 k a year and just married, in today's economy, I would be doing everything to save for the next decade of the unknowns of marriage not trying to save the world by getting off gas. I know it is a passion of some of ours and I know a musician couple who are EV advocates and make maybe $25K a year between them. No kids. They stretched to lease a Leaf but they are very much against overseas oil wars. Have fun but don't spend all your money on your ideals. Save and save some more. Good going on the debt and mortgage angle. I had a lot of dreams when I got married in 1994. I still have debt but low interest debt, some 0%. Lots of investments too. Twenty years later and a lot of history, I am glad to still be married and enduring. One thing I learned was that a good definition of maturity is being able to delay pleasure. Saving gas can also be done through job changes or relocating, change in lifestyle and more.
That's why I said "generally speaking". But I'm being a realist here. And I'm not being nosy or rude at all because the OP clearly put his own financials out there in the first post. Personally I would never even consider the thought on a 60k salary. After taxes that's like 3 years of your life dedicated to a car. IMO that's ridiculous and not a wise financial decision. But to each their own.
Yobigd - I know you're not trying to be rude and in general I DO agree with your sentiments. However, taxes are a funny thing.
From what others who have been open on this forum, it is fairly straightforward to assess quite a few - not all! - others overall financial situation. Compared with a very large fraction of all Tesla owners, I am, well, extremely well off; could not be more financially secure; the only notes in existence with my signature on them are loans I have made to others; etc., etc.,......
....and I got a bid fat $ippidy-doo-dah of that $7,500. Nada, Zilchissimo.
So all is not necessarily what it seems with rebates.
From what others who have been open on this forum, it is fairly straightforward to assess quite a few - not all! - others overall financial situation. Compared with a very large fraction of all Tesla owners, I am, well, extremely well off; could not be more financially secure; the only notes in existence with my signature on them are loans I have made to others; etc., etc.,......
....and I got a bid fat $ippidy-doo-dah of that $7,500. Nada, Zilchissimo.
So all is not necessarily what it seems with rebates.
and you're one of the ones that doesn't apply to my 'generally speaking', lol. obviously there is a category of some folks that are so well off that they have $0 taxable income at the end of the year. The "general" population doesn't fit into that category,
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