Recommendations for my driving profile

taurusking said:

1. I read lot of comments about degradation in the forum. I believe it is normal to expect 20% degradation over 4-5 years of usage right? In my case it is going to be earlier than 5 years due to my driving range?

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Absolutely not. Nobody who actually has a Tesla has reported anywhere near that type of degradation of the battery. cut that in half to 10%, and you may still be over-estimating the degradation. The only people throwing numbers like those around are those trying to spread FUD.

2. Is it o.k to buy 60kWh and wait for cheaper battery packs in the future to swap or to go for 85kWh option?

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swapping the battery seems like a risky proposition, it could be expensive, it seems better to go for the bigger battery right away if you think you'll need it. Now for 90 miles a day you won't, but consider what you might do on the weekends or on vacation and decide.

3. Given my usage is it better to go 85kWh since it has unlimited miles warranty? What does that unlimited miles cover ? Bumper to bumper ? Normal degradation of battery is however not covered so what is the use?

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both batteries have warranties, how much degradation is actually covered is open for debate. I seem to remember hearing something from Elon that for the "unlimited" warranty on the 85kWh pack that something like 80% remaining after 8 years would be the cut-off, but I can't be certain. (that would be the 20% you quoted, but over 8 years not 4-5)

It looks to me like you're choosing between a bigger battery, and more toys. This is a very personal decision, basically if your only driving is that 90 miles a day, then the 60 should be plenty and you can enjoy your toys. but if you frequently do trips over that 90 mile limit then you might want the bigger pack. I should also mention that I noted that in the 85 build you went with only the single charger, think about that one carefully. I know there aren't that many super chargers in Texas yet, so you might want to consider what other charging options are available to see if the dual chargers might be quite useful if you decide to go any further than your 90 miles...

1. At least two owners have 90K-100K miles on their model S and have reported only minor degradation. Of course this is on cars less than two years old so it is hard to tell what it will be on cars driven less miles per year. Most people report liking the model S so much they drive it more than they expect. I know it is our vehicle of choice for all our trips. The model S is a great road car--I recommend getting the 85.

3. The unlimited warranty is on the battery only. Many people are debating getting the extended warranty coverage as a result.

It's currently not possible to upgrade to the 85, but who knows what will happen in the future.

As for the 60, so long as you stay in the DFW-HOU-SAT triangle, you will be able to get around. Travel outside that triangle will be limited well into 2016 and perhaps beyond.

Although I have and love dual chargers, I don't see them as a huge value to you today.

As green1 mentioned, battery degradation has been nowhere close to what you quoted.

Since you're in Dallas, you should try to connect with one or some of us Model S owners for a more in depth discussion.

bollar said:

It's currently not possible to upgrade to the 85, but who knows what will happen in the future.

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That's only half true. Tesla doesn't like doing it, but there have been people who have had it done. Right now it's hard for Tesla to get enough batteries to meet their existing manufacturing commitments, so they are understandably frugal with them. There's no real reason to believe that this is a long term situation though, so I expect that in the future it will be possible, though at what cost is not yet known.

Although I have and love dual chargers, I don't see them as a huge value to you today.

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As I mentioned, it's worth thinking about, if they want to leave that triangle, then it depends what chargers are available along that route, sitting at a charger for hours on end often isn't fun, and with the right charging infrastructure available having the dual chargers could halve your waiting time. That would definitely be worth it if that sort of travelling is common. (I don't know Texas well enough, so you would know better than I, but around here most road tripping is done on the Sun Country Highway, and many of those chargers are high enough current to support dual chargers)

green1 said:

It looks to me like you're choosing between a bigger battery, and more toys. This is a very personal decision...

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+1. we went with the toys and are very happy with that decision because we use/see the toys every time we drive it (our 60 was about $87k). but we rarely use the car more than 30-40 mi a day, and an occasional 60-70 mi day once a week. in fact, i have only seen double digit RR on the dash maybe 3-4 times, and i never charge more than 80% overnight.

i will admit if i had a 90 mi commute though, i'd go with the 85 just for peace of mind. i tend to take side trips or run extra errands if time allows. keep in mind that you won't get 1:1 on RR anyway. we lose about 20% RR based on 337 avg wh/mi

green1 said:

That's only half true. Tesla doesn't like doing it, but there have been people who have had it done. Right now it's hard for Tesla to get enough batteries to meet their existing manufacturing commitments, so they are understandably frugal with them. There's no real reason to believe that this is a long term situation though, so I expect that in the future it will be possible, though at what cost is not yet known.

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True, but we have had at least one failure in the past week, so IMO, I wouldn't buy expecting to be able to upgrade.

As I mentioned, it's worth thinking about, if they want to leave that triangle, then it depends what chargers are available along that route, sitting at a charger for hours on end often isn't fun, and with the right charging infrastructure available having the dual chargers could halve your waiting time. That would definitely be worth it if that sort of travelling is common. (I don't know Texas well enough, so you would know better than I, but around here most road tripping is done on the Sun Country Highway, and many of those chargers are high enough current to support dual chargers)

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We have precious few J1772s outside the triangle, and most, if not all are 30 amp. There is the occasional 80 amp HPWC, but most charging will be with 14-50s at RV parks.

If budget allows, sure; but I think stretching for the 85 is better value than dual charging down here.

taurusking said:

Hi Bollar

Thanks for your input.

Can you give me your phone # so I can call and if you don't mind giving your input?

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No worries. Good luck with your purchase & we can talk solar PV in a couple of weeks.

After 20k miles on our model S, if I had to choose between range and toys, I would choose range. Toys and features are nice, but if you don't have the range to get where you go, you're not going to have much fun with the car's features. And I'm in McKinney, so I understand the challenge of being on This Island Texas. I've made trips to Tyler and am planning a trip north through OK to KS and I would have much less comfort doing so with a 60.

If you want to talk further, PM me and we can get in touch.

You're trading pano, air, cyclone wheels and dual chargers for more range on road trips (as it doesn't seem you'll need it for everyday driving). To me, given what features you'll lose, I'd go with the greater range. I needed a 170 mile one way regular trip capability in the freezing cold and occasional snow and a 60 wouldn't do it for me unless I stuck at or below the speed limit. Of course, you can see my configuration in my sig. The only difference would be that I have air suspension and I think I'd rather have the coils for the simplicity.

Range vs toys is a really personal decision, and I don't think any of us can tell the OP what the right answer is there. The only thing they can do is think hard about what driving they actually do.
If that 90 miles a day is truly the only driving the car will do, then get the toys and forget about longer range, but if you plan to go visit friends/family out of state, or you drive to the beach on occasion, or whatever it is that makes you want to drive further, get some range. I can't tell you what to do, and neither can anyone else, you'll have to decide for yourself.

For myself it would be the range, but that's only because even the 85 isn't enough for many trips I take on a regular basis, (gotta keep an ICE for now) but that's my driving pattern, not yours, and very few people share it with me.

taurusking said:

Thanks to everyone who provided feedback.

I picked the 85kWh. I love the toys but I love the range even better. I do take trips on a regular basis and there was no point having air suspension and or pano roof without the range.

It was a hard decision but glad I made it. I don't think I will regret it..

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Congrats. I think you made the right decision. No reason to look back as the added range is definitely worth it for the amount you drive.

Does having dual chargers lower the range of the vehicle? Or is it the added weight that lowers the range?

JakeR said:

Does having dual chargers lower the range of the vehicle?

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No.

You might consider skipping the yacht floor and adding twin charger too.