Electric Infinities

[dpeilow]

What was the source on that source?

[TEG]

What was the source on that source?

Giving EVnow a little help:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aJEVrzt2t.8o

...
Even as Nissan shuttered factories in 1999, it continued battery work. In 2006, Ghosn overruled Nissan’s researchers and approved high-volume EV manufacturing.
“The engineers will always tell you, ‘Wait a little more,’ and if you keep playing this game, you never launch any product,” he says.
By the time Ghosn attended the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, in January 2007, he was a full-blown EV booster...

[EVNow]

Giving EVnow a little help:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aJEVrzt2t.8o

Thanks TEG.

BTW, when the designs for Infinity EV was shown to the bosses sometime back - it was rejected as being too similar to Leaf. This I guess is the new design ....

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/12/r...-styling-lack/

ps : I think a good competition is building for the premium EV. Any guesses on the price ? My guess would be undercutting Model S - may be even below $40K after tax credit.

Anyone knows whether the 200K limit per manufacturer for the tax credits applies to Nissan & Infinity together or separately ?

[SteveTheTech]

Nissan and Infiniti are under the same parent umbrella so they share the same carbon points. Nissan like many others uses cars like the Versa and Sentra to offset some of the larger vehicles like the 420hp M56.

The new Infiniti EV will most likely look like the offspring of the Essence and a Leaf. The Leaf has the coefficient of drag needed to make an EV work, but sized around a Prius would not be a huge hit where the smallest car is the G sedan.

Infiniti will have better luck (initially at least) with the M35Hybrid when that comes out in the near future. They will need to work out the bugs from the charging infrastructure first before marketing it as a true Infiniti.

Bottom line price will not be the largest selling point of electric vehicles, or at least it should not be anymore. Warranty, and future battery purchase, or update programs will need to be factored. People are going to be looking at the overall price of the battery instead of stacking taking it in context, which will do more for public impression than many other things at least at the onset of the EV movement.

Nissans battery lease program sounds pretty interesting though, although details are a bit sparse as I suspect they are still working on. Tesla is going to have something similar as the price of batteries will scare people off.

[stopcrazypp]

Nissans battery lease program sounds pretty interesting though, although details are a bit sparse as I suspect they are still working on. Tesla is going to have something similar as the price of batteries will scare people off.

Nissan ditched the battery lease idea in the US. Part of it may have to do with the possibility of losing the $7500 credit if they leased the battery separately or it may be other regulatory issues. The other is, if up front costs are so important, why not lease the whole car? People who want to own their car, in general will not like having a core component being leased. People okay with leasing would likely not be opposed to leasing the whole car anyways.

I think bottom line price will still end up very important (although less so in the luxury market), for example the $34k price of the Leaf will likely close the door for other competitors selling a similar BEV at a more expensive price. No car company is yet willing to discuss details on future battery purchase or update programs (because they can't predict how things will be until at least reaching the end of warranty for their first-gen of the car), so that isn't going to be a factor the consumer can take into account. In terms of warranty, they will likely end up exactly the same among competitors (both Leaf and Volt has 8 year, 100k mile warranties, with Nissan following GM's lead).

[Iz]

if up front costs are so important, why not lease the whole car? People who want to own their car, in general will not like having a core component being leased.

I shudder anytime I read about EVs and lease in the same sentence. I also wonder what the legal ramifications would have been to EV1 owners who decided to "lose" their EV1 instead of turning them over for crushing.

[vfx]

I stand corrected on the "fast tracked" comment.

Giving EVnow a little help:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aJEVrzt2t.8o

Even as Nissan shuttered factories in 1999, it continued battery work. In 2006, Ghosn overruled Nissan’s researchers and approved high-volume EV manufacturing.

I wonder if Tesla or the WKTEC movie had any influence here?

[stopcrazypp]

I shudder anytime I read about EVs and lease in the same sentence. I also wonder what the legal ramifications would have been to EV1 owners who decided to "lose" their EV1 instead of turning them over for crushing.

There is a big distinction between "lease only" (BEV examples: EV1, MINI-E; hydrogen example: Honda Clarity) and a lease option. Lease only means they likely will take the car back at the end of lease. Having a lease option, means the automaker is offering BEVs commercially (as opposed to only an experiment), since anyone who wants to buy it can buy it.

And if the only option was leasing the battery, yes you get to keep the car, which is better than the EV1 situation, but they can still hold hostage the most important part of the car: the battery.

[SteveTheTech]

-Nissan ditched the battery lease idea in the US.
-Part of it may have to do with the possibility of losing the $7500 credit
-I think bottom line price will still end up very important
-No car company is yet willing to discuss details on future battery purchase or update programs
-(both Leaf and Volt has 8 year, 100k mile warranties, with Nissan following GM's lead).

-The battery lease idea wasn't too bad but given the fact there is no supporting infrastructure or established history it would make sense they would try to be cautious.

-If cell packs become separately available the price of replacing them would not be so astounding.

-Price is the primary determining factor to the majority of new purchasers...however if bottom line critical to your budget buying the first of anything is a bad idea. Buying the newest alternate fuel vehicle is going to be a little bit of gamble as there are a few unknowns.

-I agree that they will have to support the battery for the useful life of the product...but as with the battery in a laptop it will need to be replaced at some point.

-Battery replacement will need to be a considered factor. It seems like something people will blame on the company (no matter who it is) when the time comes, but they do not try to hide the life expectancy. The resale value of the car might depend greatly on the status of the battery.

[JRP3]

And if the only option was leasing the battery, yes you get to keep the car, which is better than the EV1 situation, but they can still hold hostage the most important part of the car: the battery.

Actually there are a number of options available these days for batteries. Not that I'd want Nissan to take their pack away, but if they did it could be replaced with something else.