Battery Swap Station - Firmware challenges (Speculation)

jamieb · Jul 18, 2014

Had an interesting conversation with someone from my local SC, discussing how batteries are swapped out at the SC and owners' batteries sent back to Fremont for servicing or diagnostics. I asked how long it took them to swap out batteries, and he said up to 2-3 hours - when I expressed surprise at that, he said that the physical swap-out usually took less than an hour, but that getting the battery firmware and the car to handshake correctly took anywhere from a few minutes to a full hour.

So... here is the speculation part of this posting. Even if they can get the robotics at a battery swap station to reliably exchange batteries in a few minutes, if getting the new battery to talk to your car is unpredictable and could take up to an hour, that's a deal-killer. I wonder if the delay has been an issue of getting the software to work seamlessly rather than the robotics.

apacheguy · Jul 18, 2014

Yep, I've long wondered about this. What if an A pack swaps out for a D? Then what? Tesla need to build in support for the various hardware versions into all firmwares. That way, once the car makes the swap it should be as easy as loading a separate config file for the new pack and you're on your way. It definitely does not work this way currently, as evidenced by your chat with the tech.

nwdiver · Jul 18, 2014

apacheguy said:
Yep, I've long wondered about this. What if an A pack swaps out for a D? Then what? Tesla need to build in support for the various hardware versions into all firmwares. That way, once the car makes the swap it should be as easy as loading a separate config file for the new pack and you're on your way. It definitely does not work this way currently, as evidenced by your chat with the tech.

A swap station with sufficient inventory could just ensure an A for A or D for D swap...

richkae · Jul 18, 2014

It is very likely that it just isn't a priority to make the software smart enough to deal with this.
It happens occasionally at an SC and they have plenty of time to do diagnostics.
If/when a swap station comes online then they will invest in improving the software.

ACDriveMotor · Jul 19, 2014

I thought that I had heard that with the expiration of certain credits in CA that battery swap had been cancelled or indefinitely delayed. Am I making that up?

TonyWilliams · Jul 19, 2014

ACDriveMotor said:
I thought that I had heard that with the expiration of certain credits in CA that battery swap had been cancelled or indefinitely delayed. Am I making that up?

The former car wash at Harris Ranch (half way between San Francisco and Los Angeles) will be a Tesla battery swap station probably next year.

Yes, the "fast refueling" credit from California Air Resouce Board (CARB) for battery swapping has been rescinded.

ACDriveMotor · Jul 19, 2014

OK, that is good. I would like to see how successful a battery swap can become. It is an intriguing idea.

rlang59 · Jul 19, 2014

TonyWilliams said:
The former car wash at Harris Ranch (half way between San Francisco and Los Angeles) will be a Tesla battery swap station probably next year.

Yes, the "fast refueling" credit from California Air Resouce Board (CARB) for battery swapping has been rescinded.

This is still speculation is it not? Or did this get confirmed by Tesla?

Lump · Jul 19, 2014

rlang59 said:
This is still speculation is it not? Or did this get confirmed by Tesla?

Not confirmed, from what has been said in the past Harris Ranch is probably the site but recently swapping was mentioned ideal for fleets\taxis so maybe Project 100 in Vegas is being considered.from Tesla Provides Update On Battery Swapping Status quoting Diarmuid O’Connell, Tesla VP Corporate Development

“We’ve talked about swap in various contexts. You can imagine scenarios where a fleet operator is working with swap in a depot system, where vehicles return from and to a particular location regularly.”

miimura · Jul 19, 2014

TonyWilliams said:
The former car wash at Harris Ranch (half way between San Francisco and Los Angeles) will be a Tesla battery swap station probably next year.

Yes, the "fast refueling" credit from California Air Resouce Board (CARB) for battery swapping has been rescinded.

Is it completely rescinded or just restricted to the extent that swaps are actually done? Previously, I think the car model had to be shown to provide the battery swap function, while now data must be provided to show how many swaps are actually done to get credits? I believe this was a proposal, but I have no idea what was finally implemented in the rule changes.

stopcrazypp · Jul 19, 2014

miimura said:
Is it completely rescinded or just restricted to the extent that swaps are actually done? Previously, I think the car model had to be shown to provide the battery swap function, while now data must be provided to show how many swaps are actually done to get credits? I believe this was a proposal, but I have no idea what was finally implemented in the rule changes.

Final rule-making seems to have been passed last Thursday, with the number of swaps per year being the criteria (vs number of cars produced for that year):
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2013/zev2013/zev2013.htm

So battery swapping is not out completely, but Tesla must have enough swap events to qualify for the fast refueling credit (at least one per Model S made that year for full credits; less than that will give partial credits).

iffatall · Jul 21, 2014

I don't think there are going to be too many swaps per year. I believe the purpose of this station is more a proof of concept and a show piece rather than its actual utility. I am not sure how many users would really want to use it besides the one time to try it out may be.

I personally don't expect to use it, unless there is an emergency or something. Am I in the minority?

apacheguy · Jul 21, 2014

iffatall said:
I personally don't expect to use it, unless there is an emergency or something. Am I in the minority?

I will absolutely use it! I think there are a number of us that can't wait.

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Battery Swap Station - Firmware challenges (Speculation)

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