Concerns about waiting in line for superchargers

rpo · Jun 30, 2014

First, I ordered my Tesla a month ago, and have three months before expected delivery still. A few days ago I was driving on I-90 east of Seattle and decided to stop at both Superchargers on my route to take a look. It has me somewhat concerned.....

The Ritzville superchargers that has 4 charging bays was desolate with not one car within 20 spaces at the hotel where it was located. Yippee!

But then there was the Ellensburg supercharger that has 5 bays. It is next to a hotel and has quite a few restaurants within walking distance. All five charging bays were ICE'd. Three of those cars had pieces of paper under the windshield wipers, but I did not look to see what was written on them. There was a Tesla parked sideways who was blocking three of the cars that were ICEing, so I stopped and spoke to the owner (forgot his name) for a bit. First, the guy was livid. He had apparently been there an hour already waiting for a space to open up. The hotel had apparently said it was not their responsibility despite the spaces being in their lot and were likely guests at the hotel. The guy also said he had contacted Tesla and they "were not helpful at all". He also stated during his two prior stops at Ellensburg that four of the five spaces were ICE'd with multiple Tesla's waiting in line for that one space. There was apparently also another Tesla there on the day I stopped by that had decided to go somewhere to eat after having waited a while and would then come back. The notes on the ICE cars may have been from that Tesla owner.

I am concerned about going on road trips with my Tesla and wasting hours waiting in lines like this since there are no other quick charging options. These occurrences are only going to get worse as the number of Tesla's on the road increase unless Tesla steps up and fixes this issue. So, what are other people experiencing when it comes to the busier superchargers like Ellensburg?

Merrill · Jun 30, 2014

Personally I want Tesla to put signs that say if you are not a Tesla charging at this supercharger your car will be towed away. It will be a problem down the road and we paid for this service. We need to educate the ICE owners that the are for Tesla electric vehicles, do not park here. If anyone sees this situation you should take a picture and send it to ownership.

Zythryn · Jun 30, 2014

On our recent trip to CA over Memorial Day we had 30 supercharger stops.
Not one was completely ICED.
One station had three of 6 stations ICED on our way out to CA.
On our return trip, the same supercharger had a construction barrel that had been placed there by the hotel staff. It had a sign indicating EV charging only, violators would be towed. And, no ICE vehicles.

If you see an ICED charger and the sign says EV charging only, call TESLA.
If the sign says general parking, you are out of luck, but call anyways.

The staff can't fix it if they don't know about it. Likewise, Tesla can't fix it if they don't know about it.
Of the two situations I know of where this was an issue, once Tesla and the business owner were made aware of it, it got resolved.

TurboFroggy · Jun 30, 2014

Blocking an electric vehicle charging station in Washington is against the law: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/supdefault.aspx?cite=46.08.185

You should have called and has them ticketed/towed.

NoMoGas · Jun 30, 2014

Tesla REALLY needs to make sure these spaces are for charging only. This WILL become a greater problem. If they got permission to tow, it's nothing to get a local tow company to post signs. Space ICE'D, call the tow company and presto... space opens. Only when enforced will this nonsense stop.

andrewket · Jun 30, 2014

Zythryn said:
On our recent trip to CA over Memorial Day we had 30 supercharger stops.
Not one was completely ICED.
One station had three of 6 stations ICED on our way out to CA.
On our return trip, the same supercharger had a construction barrel that had been placed there by the hotel staff. It had a sign indicating EV charging only, violators would be towed. And, no ICE vehicles.

If you see an ICED charger and the sign says EV charging only, call TESLA.
If the sign says general parking, you are out of luck, but call anyways.

The staff can't fix it if they don't know about it. Likewise, Tesla can't fix it if they don't know about it.
Of the two situations I know of where this was an issue, once Tesla and the business owner were made aware of it, it got resolved.

The model s app should add a supercharger tab that amongst other obvious features could include a quick "report a problem".

detlefo · Jun 30, 2014

I have charged at 48 SCs, many several time on my Grass Valley to New Jersey trip. The vast majority were empty and I never had to wait. I have not been to Ellensburg, hopefully it is an exception. Locally Folsom was a problem before Roseville opened. Barstow is a problem on weekends. I've been there mid week with only one other tesla.

rpo · Jun 30, 2014

I did not pay close enough attention, but are there are dedicated spaces at the Ellensburg supercharger?

Vger · Jun 30, 2014

While I certainly do not deny the veracity or seriousness of the OP's initial report, for perspective, let me say that my wife and I have used the Ellensburg station more than ten times since the day it was installed (we happened to be the first ones to use it). In all those times, we have not once seen a single instance of total ICEing, and in fact, I can only remember one time that any non-Tesla vehicle was there. I have also never seen more than two Tesla's charging at once, including our own.

Now, it bears mention that we always charge there midday, en route from BC to Clarkston, WA, or vice versa, generally between 10am and 2pm. The ICEing problem at a motel-hosted site might be much worse in the evening, as hotel guests accumulate, or early morning, before they leave.

brianman · Jul 1, 2014

I've charged @ the Ellensburg supercharger twice. No iceing. One Tesla chat. So far my experience there has been as good as Centralia.

As for Ritzville, I've been meaning to find an excuse to make a trip out there but haven't found the time yet.

jerjozwik · Jul 1, 2014

just sayin, the model S has more than enough storage capacity... and roller jacks make it so easy for one person to move a car.

TexasEV · Jul 1, 2014

This is what I don't understand about locating supercharging stations in hotel parking lots. Shopping centers and restaurants benefit by having superchargers located there as it attracts business. Those locations would have reasonably high turnover of spaces so even if all the spaces weren't dedicated to supercharging the wait wouldn't likely be too long (the exception being the one shopping center where employes were parking at the superchargers and that problem was resolved quickly). A hotel doesn't have an incentive to attract business by agreeing to have superchargers in its parking lot-- a Tesla driver wouldn't be more likely to stay at a hotel because it has a supercharger, actually it's less convenient because a responsible Tesla owner would need to go back out and move the car after it's charged. Hotel parking lots usually have lots of empty spaces during the day but in the evening and at night they're often full with guests who aren't moving their car until morning. So what's the incentive for a hotel to dedicate spaces to superchargers? I don't see one unless Tesla pays significant rent for the spaces, which they say they don't do, and if they're not dedicated spaces then evenings and nights are going to be a problem that is not easily solved.

Zythryn · Jul 1, 2014

I go out of my way to do business at hotels that offer SCs, even if I don't need it.
When I do, I park in general parking and plug into the SC when I get up in the morning.

I do agree that restaurants or malls are better locations, however, hotels are also good locations.

PhilBa · Jul 1, 2014

Strangely heated discussion. I'll try to avoid dipping into that.

But I do have questions/comments. I think the WA law says EV signage placement is voluntary in private lots. Signage must be present for a violation to occur and it is up to the local jurisdiction to enforce it. In the case of the Ellensburg SC, there aren't any WA approved EV signs, correct? So, I think there is no violation. Probably the lack of WA EV signs has to do with the contract with the site owner.

Also, is it correct that Tesla says they don't want to hear about shared spaces that are ICEd? Seems very odd to me. Not sure that is the correct interpretation.

David99 · Jul 1, 2014

Educating ICE drivers, as suggested, is not going t work. There are too many of them. Impossible.

The interesting part and I think that is key, is that these spots are marked as 'general parking'. I have seen those at several SC locations. It probably means that Tesla didn't buy or lease these parking spots exclusive from the owner for whatever reason. That is clearly a mistake on Tesla's side as they can't do anything when ICE cars park there. I think the best thing to do here is email Tesla each time we have a problem at any Supercharger. It is in their interest to keep them available to Tesla owners and I'm pretty sure they will do something about it.

After a lot of problems and users being vocal about the bad situation in Hawthorne, they upgraded all stalls from 90 to 120 kW and added two more stalls. Problem solved! Let Tesla know, be vocal. They are the ones that can fix it.

Owner · Jul 1, 2014

I disagree!

As having driven across and around the country, I definitely preferred the hotel with the supercharger. A lot of hotels are clustered around busy streets that are not particularly easy to cross. Imagine yourself coming into a place after a road trip ready to crash. Perhaps you have a pile of young restless children or other tired folks with you. Wouldn't you much rather park the car right away and check in? Unload leisurely, charge, get settled in etc.... By the time all that is done, you are ready to have dinner or move the car. If it is even 1/2 a mile away, your more likely to wait impatiently for a charge. Add in rain, wind, cold, snow and the problem gets worse.

TexasEV said:
This is what I don't understand about locating supercharging stations in hotel parking lots. ...A hotel doesn't have an incentive to attract business by agreeing to have superchargers in its parking lot-- a Tesla driver wouldn't be more likely to stay at a hotel because it has a supercharger, actually it's less convenient because a responsible Tesla owner would need to go back out and move the car after it's charged. Hotel parking lots usually have lots of empty spaces during the day but in the evening and at night they're often full with guests who aren't moving their car until morning. So what's the incentive for a hotel to dedicate spaces to superchargers? I don't see one unless Tesla pays significant rent for the spaces, which they say they don't do, and if they're not dedicated spaces then evenings and nights are going to be a problem that is not easily solved.

TexasEV · Jul 1, 2014

David99 said:
The interesting part and I think that is key, is that these spots are marked as 'general parking'. I have seen those at several SC locations. It probably means that Tesla didn't buy or lease these parking spots exclusive from the owner for whatever reason. That is clearly a mistake on Tesla's side as they can't do anything when ICE cars park there.

Rather than a mistake, the more likely explanation is the property owner refused to provide all the spots to Tesla on an exclusive basis. Tesla certainly doesn't "buy" spaces and they've said the leases are for a nominal fee if anything. Until businesses see how much extra revenue is generated by having Teslas stop there, some may not be willing to give up all 6 or 8 supercharging spaces exclusively to Tesla. It's better than having only 4 stalls at what's now a 6 or 8 stall location, for example, if that's all the property was willing to provide exclusively. As a Model S owner I don't like it, but short of Tesla buying land and building its own parking lots I don't know what else can be done.

invisik · Jul 1, 2014

At the Mall of America here in Minnesota, they have a few J1772 chargers in a few spots. They were always ICED. ALWAYS. Since they got the spots painted with green lines, I have yet to see it ICED. I personally highly recommend the visibility of the green paint in addition to signage after seeing the change here. I think it's partly because drivers usually look for the blue handicap logo painted on the spot, so they seem to also see the green EV paint.

Here's its entry on Plugshare--see photos

http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/4748

-m

Alysashley79 · Jul 1, 2014

dsm363 said:
Do you know for a fact the property owners didn't say 'you can put a supercharger here but we want it to be general parking'? A I understand the law here, the fines only apply for ICEing a spot if the proper signage is up. If the owner doesn't wish to do that then the ICE has every right to block someone from charging although they shouldn't of course. I do wish Tesla would properly mark the spots but there must be a reason other then no one had secretly recorded them and alerted the media to shame them yet.

i checked with my neighbor who's a sheriff about this. As tesla hasn't put up the proper signage. However if you notice. There ARE the green lines painted on the ground....therefore if the police were called a warning would be issued to any car(s) that are parked in the superchargers. It would also possibly cause the hotel enough heat to warn their patrons NOT to park in the stalls. I have used the chargers several times and haven't ever been ICED....however it's a very busy area and could see how it could easily happen...

invisik · Jul 1, 2014

Alysashley79 said:
There ARE the green lines painted on the ground

The Mall of America lines are repeated diagonally across the entire spot (with white outline), very visible. See pic #2 on the Plugshare link.

Seems to me Tesla has to talk to someone at the hotel to make a change. Similar to the Eau Claire, WI supercharger where the Noodle's employees were ICEing all the spots daily.

-m

Concerns about waiting in line for superchargers

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