HPWC IR Pics (more fun!)

Thanks for these as well! Was that 182 on the Fuse inside the HPWC? It's hard to tell what I'm looking at on that one.

Let us know what Tesla says about this. The contactor reading does seem pretty high. Your measurements on the outside are roughly the same as mine after I got the new cord. The hottest part is definitely where the cable exits the HPWC.

DAMNIT!! I have a FLIR ONE on order and was going to do this with it when it came in!


NICE POST!

rdrcrmatt said:

DAMNIT!! I have a FLIR ONE on order and was going to do this with it when it came in!


NICE POST!

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Well, since you don't need it anymore, you can just send it to me

That's the kind of proactive service I've always experienced from Tesla. Glad they took care of you so quickly! They're an amazing company.

Hi there,

I thought I'd chime in here. Last year I reported to Tesla that the handle on my HPWC was at 136º and that I thought it was a little warm. They did some checking and came back and told me that it was "within acceptable limits". I let it go because it didn't really burn me, it just concerned me.

Last week I interrupted the charging when it was going full throttle 79/80 amps and the car was at a rated range of 211 miles. This time it was really hot so I got my laser thermometer and took some readings—145-158º or so depending on where I shone the little red dot. I called again and this time they said they would get in touch with the local SC. They called me back but nothing was really resolved. I called back a few days later and spoke to my regular service advisor. She told me to send her a photo and I said I would. Holding the thermometer and the camera was not easy since I still need another finger to actually shoot a picture so I did something better, I shot video. The temps were all varied but confirmed the 145-158 range. I sent her the video and she sent the video to engineering. Engineering then told her to have me take the car in for a check up because maybe there are some loose resistors in the charge port. 'That made no sense to me since it wasn't the car nor the port that was hot, it was the handle and the cable.

They got the car today and told me that they took the charge port apart and that everything checks out (their handle got up to 98º) and that I should get in touch with the contractor who installed it. Oh, you mean Solar City? The contractor that Tesla recommends? Ok sure. They are thinking that it may be a problem with the install. I voiced my disagreement with that analysis but I'll go along with it. Who knows? Maybe. I also took the opportunity to tell her that I found her mentioning of the charger only having a "one year warranty" to be ridiculous when I purchased the charger at the same time as the car and purchased all the extended warranties they had to offer. How can you sell me a rechargeable item and its charger and warranty the item for 8 yrs and the charger for one? Especially since I am on record as having complained about the hot handle last year sometime?

After we hung up, I decided to check the forum to see if anyone else has reported problems with heat and I found this and another thread. (Oh when I called Solar City, he told me that he had just gotten off the phone with a regional mgr up in Portland who had just fielded a call from someone else reporting the same thing who was referred to Solar City. He too found it odd that although they are sister companies Tesla appears to be treating them like a red-headed step-child.) After reading through many of the posts in this thread, I called my advisor back and let her know that this problem was NOT new and that many others have been experiencing problems, some have even had two cable replacements already. She was not surprised, she just told me that they have to follow procedure and that she would champion my cause to at the very least help me if I have to purchase another HPWC. I let her know in no uncertain terms that I did not intend on "buying" another anything.

A few minutes later, as I continued to read the posts on the subject, she called me with good news. She went in and spoke to her manager and somehow convinced him to get me a new charger and have another electrician install it. I was grateful but can't help wondering why Tesla isn't taking looking at this as a potential design flaw.

Jorge

Did you ever get the install checked as recommended? Or is the assumption it must be the HPC and they were just trying to not deal with it (which hasn't been my experience)?

I was talking to someone earlier today about this and there was concern that it wasn't actually the HPC, but rather an improperly installed breaker causing the HPC to display these issues. Just because Tesla and Solar City share a board member, doesn't make them sister companies (that would require the same parent corporation). It sounds like the SolarCity person you talked to managed to make this Tesla's problem without actually checking their own work. (Nice deflection on their part, btw.) Might be Tesla, but you don't actually know that based on what is posted here. Might be SolarCity, too.

I called them (immediately) to set up an inspection. He took my number and told me he would check with his manager to see what he could do for me. I am still waiting to hear back from them but Tesla called me and told me that they are going to replace it with another electrician of their choosing even though I told them that I called Solar City to look at it.

They (Tesla) said they'd call me tomorrow to set it up.

wk057,
Awesome pictures, thank you big time for your research here.
The Curtis/Albright SW82 Contactor has a suffix of -312. Per their web site FAQ:
What is the "end part number" on each Albright DC contactor label called?
This "suffix" number is called a "precise identity number" which identifies that specific Albright DC contactor number with a specific customer and contactor special features.
So, I would think that this identifies Tesla as a unique customer, and the "upside down" configuration with compensated contactors, as the data sheet describes as an option. The -312 cannot be decoded from the data sheet, but the FAQ describes it as a unique proprietary custom item, presumably per customer purchase contract.

HPWC P/N Rev:
-A and –B at the end of the P/N on the cardboard Box indicates the unit was built with the smaller internal 100Amp slow blow fuses. Rev –C and above have a physically 2x larger 200Amp? fuse. The larger fuses run cooler and have less propensity to fail.
Tesla has had a service campaign to replace the fuses on Rev –A and –B units. If you are in doubt, check with your service manager. I think Rev –C came out about July of 2013, (remember the temporary software charge limit of 60Amps?) so only the earlier HPWC units were involved.
Why is this important? The smaller fusses could have been dumping heat into the Contactor terminals, (see Photo FLIR0086.jpg 6/20/2014 10:43:20AM) making the Contactor run even hotter. However, your last set of FLIR photos show the larger fuses and the contactor as hotter than the new larger fuses. A dramatic improvement.

2AWG In & 6AWG Out:
I can see in Photos FLIR0149.jpg 8/5/2014 5:37:12AM & FLIR0150 5:37:23AM that the contactor is still hot, however there is a dramatic demonstration of how hot the #6AWG rubber cord set side is compared to the #2AWG input side through the new larger fuses with thicker brackets. Mainly, the terminal lug connection to the output side wires. In fact, the jumper wire that goes from the contactor through the ferrite coil and to the terminal block to the 6AWG rubber cord, looks like it is #4AWG.
So, the limiter now is the #6AWG rubber cord set.

Metal Conduit Vs. Romex:
I also wired my system with 2AWG copper wire, and I also noted that the 6AWG Rubber cord at the HPWC exit and at the Connector Handle were the hottest areas per my un-calibrated hands.
A friend of mine installed his 2AWG wiring using metal Conduit. I used Romex in the wall without conduit. I still need to close the sheetrock, so the Romex is still exposed for inspection. I noticed that my friend’s 1” metal conduit entering the HPWC was very very hot to the touch. There was also 1-1/4” conduit used to reach a junction box close by. This conduit was slightly cooler. My 2AWG Romex entering the HPWC was barely warm. In both cases I was charging my empty Model S at 80Amps for a good hour or more. Both of our HPWCs have the new larger fuses.
So I am wondering how much inductive heating is being added by the small diameter metal conduit? I do have some metal conduit , 5 feet of 1-1/2”, where the Romex (stripped jacket) exits the attic and goes to the main electrical panel. During the same charge session at night, it was cool to the touch. Bigger conduit is better.

In closing, if I could, I’d like to replace my 25-foot #6AWG rubber cord set with a 10-foot #4AWG rubber cord set. Meanwhile, since I have plenty of time overnight, I’ve reduced my charge current from 80 to 60Amps. Lower currents and lower temperatures result in longer component life.

If possible, I’d love to see more detailed FLIR’s showing the components and jumper wires and terminal lugs with the cover off. (CAREFULL). And the 6AWG rubber cord set from 12 inches outside to the inside terminal blocks. Also, a closer look at that 3k Ohm 5% power resistor.

Cool work on a hot topic! Thanks!

banterer said:

I called them (immediately) to set up an inspection. He took my number and told me he would check with his manager to see what he could do for me. I am still waiting to hear back from them but Tesla called me and told me that they are going to replace it with another electrician of their choosing even though I told them that I called Solar City to look at it.

They (Tesla) said they'd call me tomorrow to set it up.

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Smart on Tesla's part. People don't like to say their own work was bad. If there is a problem with the wiring, they'll have to identify specifically what the problem is and then you'll have your answer. SolarCity is a good company (I own stock there, too), but companies are made up of people. And people make mistakes sometimes. Happens. Glad everyone is getting involved to figure out what went wrong for you.

It's no secret that Tesla went with the "bare-minimum"design philosophy on both the HPWC, and the UMC, obviously for cost reasons.
IMHO, this was a horrible idea, because buyers of $100k cars would rather pay a bit more for a robust charging solution, rather than constantly having problems.

Very interesting thread. In EU they didn't even try to make a HPWC (for >10 kW 3-phase AC charging) but left it to 3rd party OEMs. Smart move perhaps, since the Mennekes type 2 standard was already in place.

Also the US version of 20/22 kW AC charging is at 240V one phase (80 A) while our's is at 400 V 3-phase (32A). With regards to heat I'd guess the EU solution is superior.