12V battery issue- stranded at Mt Shasta supercharger

wraithnot · Jun 1, 2014

My beloved S85 is being loaded on a flatbed tow truck as I write this. I got a charge error when I tried to charge the car at the supercharger last night. After some rebooting and turning the car on and off I managed to get it to accept a charge at the supercharger. But it stopped charging after about 15 minutes. We were spending the night at the hotel right next to the supercharger so Tesla said they would work on things and contact me before we planned to leave in the morning.

The tow truck driver was great and jump started the 12v, but the errors returned as soon as he took the jumper cables off. Tesla was extremely responsive and it was nice to know that there was someone to talk to 24-7 if you have problems. It definitely sucks that the car stranded us, but at least Tesla and the tow truck driver did everything possible to minimize the inconvenience. We're getting a ride to the enterprise car rental in redding and the we'll be back on our way.

mibaro2 · Jun 1, 2014

Sorry to hear this happened to you. Keep us posted as to what Tesla says the root cause of it was.
Glad to hear Tesla helped out as much as they could.

apacheguy · Jun 1, 2014

Indeed, it sounds like there perhaps is an issue beyond the 12V. Supercharging has nothing to do with the 12 V and so I suspect the main HV pack. A fault in the HV pack would render the 12V useless as has happened in many cases.

AbeFromin · Jun 1, 2014

that sux man. sorry you have to deal with all that.

the 12V continues to be the Achilles Heel of this car. ashame.

wraithnot · Jun 1, 2014

apacheguy said:
Indeed, it sounds like there perhaps is an issue beyond the 12V. Supercharging has nothing to do with the 12 V and so I suspect the main HV pack. A fault in the HV pack would render the 12V useless as has happened in many cases.

The initial problem occurred before I connected to the supercharger- I noticed the ring around the charge port was red as I was about to plug into the supercharger. The "12v battery low" and "unable to drive" errors also cleared when the tow truck driver hooked the jumper cables to the terminals behind the nosecone. But I'll know more on Monday when the Rocklin service center takes a look at the car.

@mibaro2 and AbeFromin things are much better now. While getting stranded by a car is never fun, I was really impressed with everything Tesla did to help us. Nick and Dan at Tesla were great as were the guys from Valley Towing. Our tow truck driver towed the car about 250 miles to the nearest service center and his boss drove myself, my wife and our friend about 60 miles in his personal truck to the nearest car rental place where we were given a rental car and sent on our way home. Nick and Dan coordinated everything and called to see how things were going multiple times. They also picked up the tab for everything. I hope the car never breaks down again, but this was still a far more pleasant experience than all the other times I've had cars break down.

martinwinlow · Jun 2, 2014

The support Tesla has provided you with is unbelievable. Imagine any other car maker doing this. Would even Rolls Royce or Ferrari go this far to help out a broken down customer? I'm too impoverished to have any idea but I expect there are a few readers out there who might be able to share some personal experiences for the sake of comparison…? MW

wraithnot · Jun 4, 2014

apacheguy said:
Indeed, it sounds like there perhaps is an issue beyond the 12V. Supercharging has nothing to do with the 12 V and so I suspect the main HV pack. A fault in the HV pack would render the 12V useless as has happened in many cases.

You called it- the root cause was an issue with the main 85 kWh battery pack and they are going to swap out my pack with a "re-manufactured pack by Tesla Motors, Inc. and re-built by Engineering with all new internal parts".

On the positive side, the 24-7 roadside assistance was truly superb and we made it back home on Sunday in plenty of time to make it to dinner in San Francisco with my wife's family.

qwk · Jun 4, 2014

Did you have an 'A' pack or 'B' pack?

wraithnot · Jun 4, 2014

qwk said:
Did you have an 'A' pack or 'B' pack?

I had a B pack (part number 1014114-00-B with serial number T13B0006864)

I was following things on the iPhone app and I noticed that the range changed from about 130 to about 60 sometime this morning and then I saw the car drive from the Rocklin service center to the Roseville supercharger. It started charging at 108 kW so I'm pretty sure I didn't get an "A" pack as a replacement.

wraithnot · Jun 5, 2014

mibaro2 said:
Sorry to hear this happened to you. Keep us posted as to what Tesla says the root cause of it was.
Glad to hear Tesla helped out as much as they could.

I just got the car back- they replaced the 12V battery and the HV 85 kWh battery. The paperwork said "Replaced 12v battery for low voltage after high voltage interlock loop failure".

They hauled the car on a trailer from the Rocklin service center to where I work and then took the rental car back on the trailer. Service doesn't get much better than that!

The car has v5.11 1.59.47 software and feels a little faster than before- but that's probably just because I've been driving a ford fusion rental for a few days. In case anyone is interested, here are the part numbers from the old and new (re-manufactured) battery:

Mayhemm · Jun 7, 2014

Sorry this happened to you, but glad it was resolved as painlessly as possible.

My experience with Tesla service has been equally excellent. Now if only my insurance agent was up to the same standard.

tchaimd · Oct 17, 2014

AbeFromin said:
that sux man. sorry you have to deal with all that.

the 12V continues to be the Achilles Heel of this car. ashame.

Agreed, as well as the low profile tires on the 21" wheels, which are very susceptible to sidewall damage.

This morning as I was getting ready to leave for work, I hopped in the car and my Tesla, 13 months old (VIN P17833), notified me on the driver screen that the 12V battery power was low (and that car may shut down unexpectedly), and on the main center screen, there were three notifications: 1) Car Needs Service - Power Reduced 2) Car Needs Service - Car May Not Restart and 3) Car Needs Service - Pull Over Safely.

Fortunately, the car was sitting in my garage. If this were to have occurred elsewhere, I would be rather unhappy (I read about others who were in less fortunate circumstances when their car shut down!).

My car, as of 11am this morning, is on its way to the Tesla service center. I will update you all on the status of things.

Question: should these 12V batteries be replaced both regularly (annually?) and prophylactically (to hopefully prevent any catastrophic event from occuring due to a sudden vehicle shutdown in the middle of the freeway, or worse)?

wraithnot · Oct 17, 2014

tchaimd said:
Question: should these 12V batteries be replaced both regularly (annually?) and prophylactically (to hopefully prevent any catastrophic event from occuring due to a sudden vehicle shutdown in the middle of the freeway, or worse)?

I've had two 12V battery failures in 2014 and both times the problem involved the circuitry that charges the 12V battery rather than the 12V battery itself. The first time was due to a "high voltage interlock loop failure" in the main pack and the second time was due to some sort of intermittent contact elsewhere in the circuitry that charges the 12V battery (I got this verbally from the technician who fixed the car so I don't have anything in writing). Replacing the 12V at regular intervals is probably not a bad idea, but it wouldn't have helped either time I had issues.

I did ask the tow truck driver if he towed many Teslas with 12V battery issues and he said no- but he does tow quite a few with flat tires. I'm guessing most of those had the 21" wheels . . .

tchaimd · Oct 17, 2014

wraithnot said:
I've had two 12V battery failures in 2014 and both times the problem involved the circuitry that charges the 12V battery rather than the 12V battery itself. The first time was due to a "high voltage interlock loop failure" in the main pack and the second time was due to some sort of intermittent contact elsewhere in the circuitry that charges the 12V battery (I got this verbally from the technician who fixed the car so I don't have anything in writing). Replacing the 12V at regular intervals is probably not a bad idea, but it wouldn't have helped either time I had issues.

I did ask the tow truck driver if he towed many Teslas with 12V battery issues and he said no- but he does tow quite a few with flat tires. I'm guessing most of those had the 21" wheels . . .

I just got a call from Tesla, and they did explain to me that it was a main battery pack issue rather than the 12V battery. They are going to replace the main battery pack (unfortunately with a refurbished one rather than a new one). Did you have the main pack replaced in your instance(s)? Do you know if they used a new pack or a refurbished unit? Is either okay for you, or would you insist (or demand) a brand new pack vs a refurbished one?

roblab · Oct 17, 2014

tchaimd said:
I just got a call from Tesla, and they did explain to me that it was a main battery pack issue rather than the 12V battery. They are going to replace the main battery pack (unfortunately with a refurbished one rather than a new one). Did you have the main pack replaced in your instance(s)? Do you know if they used a new pack or a refurbished unit? Is either okay for you, or would you insist (or demand) a brand new pack vs a refurbished one?

Why would anyone expect a new pack? The one you have now is used, and they are replacing it. I might be a little piqued if they lowered my warranty, but I would expect that the refurbished pack would run out the 8 year infinite mile warranty as per your odometer and purchase date. You can't expect much more.

And don't get me started about how it might be an "A" pack. I have one. For no more than most people use a supercharger, an extra few minutes' worth of waiting a few times a year is a moot point. But it will probably be the same as you have.

wraithnot · Oct 17, 2014

tchaimd said:
I just got a call from Tesla, and they did explain to me that it was a main battery pack issue rather than the 12V battery. They are going to replace the main battery pack (unfortunately with a refurbished one rather than a new one). Did you have the main pack replaced in your instance(s)? Do you know if they used a new pack or a refurbished unit? Is either okay for you, or would you insist (or demand) a brand new pack vs a refurbished one?

The first issue required a new main HV battery pack while the second issue was resolved without a pack replacement. The replacement pack was described as having all new internal components, but I don't think that referred to the battery cells because the replacement pack range charged to ~259 miles rather than the 270+ miles that my original pack did when it was brand new or the 262 miles for my original pack right before it was replaced. But Tesla roadside assistance and Tesla service treated me so well I decided not to complain about the replacement pack losing a couple of miles relative to the pack it replaced. I've heard of people with more recent battery replacements getting a loaner battery while their original battery is being repaired, but that might have been because they live relatively close to the factory.

breser · Oct 17, 2014

tchaimd said:
I just got a call from Tesla, and they did explain to me that it was a main battery pack issue rather than the 12V battery. They are going to replace the main battery pack (unfortunately with a refurbished one rather than a new one). Did you have the main pack replaced in your instance(s)? Do you know if they used a new pack or a refurbished unit? Is either okay for you, or would you insist (or demand) a brand new pack vs a refurbished one?

The warranty specifically says you'll get a refurbished one with a similar capacity to your existing battery. I'm sure early on people got new batteries. At this point I doubt anyone will get a new battery.

LittoDevil · Oct 18, 2014

If it means anything, even your refurbished battery is considered "new". Why? Because there isn't enough Model S's and not enough time to go by to replace them with "a similar capacity to your existing battery". I spoke with a service manager and my assumption was correct. They don't have enough "used" batteries with lower capacity sitting around to swap into a new car. Most of the batteries are refurbished meaning a module might have gone bad or something with the electronic circuits but they will have to replace it with equal or something newer.

I had my battery replaced and sure it was refurbished but I got all my range that I lost over the course of 10 months and 22,000 miles

... It had 270 miles of range on a full charge so sure.. it says refurbished on the sticker but to me, it was definitely no different than a new pack.

Larry

docrice · Oct 18, 2014

Your experience with the 12V battery sounds somewhat reminiscent of mine, although for me the problem happened within the first 200 miles post-delivery.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/36968-12V-battery-problem-at-173-miles-in

I had expected that these battery problems were pretty much all resolved by now, but apparently not. I had both batteries swapped out as well. A month ago I was planning for a cross-state drive to a conference, but this experience has put a little dent in my expectations in the short term, and it's unfortunate because this is exactly the perception that Tesla's trying to nullify. I was never given a root cause for my situation though. They updated my car to 6.0 while it was in the shop, so at least that's a plus.

Like others have mentioned, the service center folks have been seriously going the extra mile(s).

tchaimd · Oct 19, 2014

Hey, again, guys,

The following is an excerpt from my Tesla service center invoice:

----------

"Replaced high voltage battery due to internal failure."

----------

Now that I have my main battery pack replaced, what assurance do I have that it will not happen again? In other words, what, if any of you are aware, specific measures has Tesla taken to identify and correct these issues to prevent or minimize the chance of this ever happening again? The reason why I ask this is because I feel rather uneasy about driving this car if the main battery is susceptible to failure at any moment's notice. If, however, this problem is exceedingly rare or unlikely to occur again, I may feel reassured. It would be nice to know what percent, thus far, of the total number of Teslas have had this problem.

I feel awful for those who actually had this battery failure experience occur while they were in traffic! Although I was unlucky to have this internal battery failure happen to my car, I was lucky in that it happened when the car was sitting in the garage!

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