Toronto Hydro (Possible) Rebate

techMology · Apr 1, 2014

Just a heads up for those owners (and potential owners) who live in Toronto about a possible rebate available to you with regards to charging.

On the advice of FlasherZ's home charging FAQ, I contacted my local utility (Toronto Hydro) to let them know I was getting an EV. To my surprise, they e-mailed me back quickly and told me about a program where they provide a financial incentive if you allow them to monitor your charging habits over a 5 year period.

It's significant, but it varies on a case by case basis. I'm not sure what the specific criteria is to determine the rebate amount, nor what makes one eligible. I received $1900.

As a result, while I was originally going to install a NEMA 14-50, I ended up installing a HPWC at 80 amps, so win-win. They were fantastic to deal with.

Further info here: http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/e...ityconservation/Documents/THE EV Brochure.pdf

(no one tell Rob Ford or else this gravy will disappear!) :smile:

MickyW · Apr 1, 2014

Thanks for the heads up! Hopefully Power Stream (in Markham) has something similar; just emailed them so fingers crossed!

kizagjo · Apr 2, 2014

I'm in the Markham area as well.. and would like to know what PowerStream says.
*fingers crossed

mknox · Apr 2, 2014

Toronto Hydro is conducting a research project and for your participation, they will install a second meter and the EVSE in order to collect data. I've heard from some that they are not being charged for the electricity on that second meter, but that might just be a billing oversight on their part. This is a Toronto Hydro specific program. Other utilities may have other incentives, but you would need to check with them directly.

techMology · Apr 2, 2014

mknox said:
Toronto Hydro is conducting a research project and for your participation, they will install a second meter and the EVSE in order to collect data. I've heard from some that they are not being charged for the electricity on that second meter, but that might just be a billing oversight on their part. This is a Toronto Hydro specific program. Other utilities may have other incentives, but you would need to check with them directly.

I was getting free power for about 3 weeks. They installed the meter yesterday. Whether or not I start to receive a bill is another question.

You don't necessarily have to install the second meter, but it's clearly the preferred route. Your rebate amount reflects that too.

I would love to see some ultra low rates for EV only service like they're doing in some areas in the US. Perhaps that will come eventually. I have no issue charging at 2am versus 7pm (the current off-peak clock).

mknox · Apr 2, 2014

techMology said:
I would love to see some ultra low rates for EV only service like they're doing in some areas in the US. Perhaps that will come eventually. I have no issue charging at 2am versus 7pm (the current off-peak clock).

This is something that is being discussed. It would likely take the form of some sort of interruptable rate that would kick in when the hourly spot market price goes below some threshold. Low spot prices can and do happen at any time of the day or night. One of the counters to an EV-specific rate is why should it only apply to EVs (from a fairness perspective). Theoretically someone with an electric thermal storage heating system could take advantage of such a rate as well.

mnx · Apr 3, 2014

mknox said:
This is something that is being discussed. It would likely take the form of some sort of interruptable rate that would kick in when the hourly spot market price goes below some threshold. Low spot prices can and do happen at any time of the day or night. One of the counters to an EV-specific rate is why should it only apply to EVs (from a fairness perspective). Theoretically someone with an electric thermal storage heating system could take advantage of such a rate as well.

Being able to get free/cheap power when rates go negative would be pretty awesome. I've pondered writing a script to scrape the IESO website to enable charging when the wholesale rates drop to a certain threshold... Too bad retail customers can't sign up for market pricing.

mknox · Apr 3, 2014

mnx said:
Being able to get free/cheap power when rates go negative would be pretty awesome. I've pondered writing a script to scrape the IESO website to enable charging when the wholesale rates drop to a certain threshold... Too bad retail customers can't sign up for market pricing.

Technically, you can. You would have to pay for an advanced meter and typically provide a phone line for it (these meters have been around for years, and most utilities interrogate them by phone although some, like our utility are moving to wireless similar to the residential "smart meters"). The thing to remember is that in addition to the hourly price, you would also have to pay the Global Adjustment on all consumption. The GA is built in to the regulated TOU price that residential and small commercial customers normally pay.

MickyW · Apr 3, 2014

kizagjo said:
I'm in the Markham area as well.. and would like to know what PowerStream says.
*fingers crossed

Unfortunately for us Power Stream users we're out of luck

Good afternoon Micky,

Thank you for your email note.

Please be advised of the following:

We’ve had a few people reach out on this. PowerStream is very supportive of electric vehicles and has been operating pilot programs to ensure they can be adopted in our service territory (for example the first vehicle-to-grid charging in Canada), however, we are not developing a similar program as Toronto Hydro.

For more information on PowerStream’s residential conservation programs, please visit www.PowerStream.ca/Conservation

Please let me know if you need any further assistance.

mnx · Apr 3, 2014

mknox said:
Technically, you can. You would have to pay for an advanced meter and typically provide a phone line for it (these meters have been around for years, and most utilities interrogate them by phone although some, like our utility are moving to wireless similar to the residential "smart meters"). The thing to remember is that in addition to the hourly price, you would also have to pay the Global Adjustment on all consumption. The GA is built in to the regulated TOU price that residential and small commercial customers normally pay.

Neato, I didn't even know it was possible. Although I think the costs of an extra phone line would eat into the potential savings in a hurry (even if it was a 5$/month VOIP line). lol

RAM_Eh · Apr 3, 2014

TechMology -As you have signed up for this, are you getting a rebate? I have just inquired about the program to Toronto Hydro and would like to be more informed as to the process and what to expect.

Thanks,

kizagjo · Apr 3, 2014

MickyW said:
Unfortunately for us Power Stream users we're out of luck

Good afternoon Micky,

Thank you for your email note.

Please be advised of the following:

We’ve had a few people reach out on this. PowerStream is very supportive of electric vehicles and has been operating pilot programs to ensure they can be adopted in our service territory (for example the first vehicle-to-grid charging in Canada), however, we are not developing a similar program as Toronto Hydro.

For more information on PowerStream’s residential conservation programs, please visit www.PowerStream.ca/Conservation

Please let me know if you need any further assistance.

Dammit.. and the sad thing is, I'm within a stone throw's away from the Toronto Hydro users

Thanks for the update Micky

techMology · Apr 3, 2014

mknox said:
Technically, you can. You would have to pay for an advanced meter and typically provide a phone line for it (these meters have been around for years, and most utilities interrogate them by phone although some, like our utility are moving to wireless similar to the residential "smart meters"). The thing to remember is that in addition to the hourly price, you would also have to pay the Global Adjustment on all consumption. The GA is built in to the regulated TOU price that residential and small commercial customers normally pay.

With a smart meter (which I have two of now), this should really boil down to just a billing problem on the utility side. The will to do it (and ROI) is the issue.

techMology · Apr 3, 2014

RAM_Eh said:
TechMology -As you have signed up for this, are you getting a rebate? I have just inquired about the program to Toronto Hydro and would like to be more informed as to the process and what to expect.

Thanks,

It's a one time, up front, cash rebate. I haven't received mine yet, but they are in the process of getting it to me.

Part of the rebate is designed to offset the additional charge I'm incurring by having a second meter/service.

kbeckley · Apr 3, 2014

It's neat that Toronto hydro is doing this pilot but it is so cheap to run the Tesla on electricity now who needs a further rebate? Well of course anyone will like a rebate but the cost of running the car is already hugely inexpensive. It cost me about $55/month to run the Tesla last year at about 2500km driven/month (that cost is less than 1/3 of my old Prius). That is simply awesome. If it is rebated to say $25, well big deal really.... Maybe I'm missing the point of the program.

mnx · Apr 3, 2014

kbeckley said:
It's neat that Toronto hydro is doing this pilot but it is so cheap to run the Tesla on electricity now who needs a further rebate? Well of course anyone will like a rebate but the cost of running the car is already hugely inexpensive. It cost me about $55/month to run the Tesla last year at about 2500km driven/month (that cost is less than 1/3 of my old Prius). That is simply awesome. If it is rebated to say $25, well big deal really.... Maybe I'm missing the point of the program.

Are you looking at the electricity the car is actually using, or what the trip meters inside the car say?

I average 2000km/month, and have averaged 810kWh per month for January-March this year... That's ~100$/month in electricity costs FWIW. I'm not sure how you're only averaging out to 55$/month!!!

kbeckley · Apr 3, 2014

Well to be honest I am being less than scientific. I averaged my electricity my bills for the previous 3 years and then compared them to last year. The increase was $55-$60 per month. In the past years however we certainly have gotten more efficient (a better fridge, fewer incandescent bulbs etc) so your are right $55 is probably too low. But $100 seems too high. I obsessively only charge during the lowest rate times. Also I have charged a few times at our place in Collingwood. OK so call it ~$80-$100. It is still pretty darn cheap.

techMology · Apr 3, 2014

kbeckley said:
It's neat that Toronto hydro is doing this pilot but it is so cheap to run the Tesla on electricity now who needs a further rebate? Well of course anyone will like a rebate but the cost of running the car is already hugely inexpensive. It cost me about $55/month to run the Tesla last year at about 2500km driven/month (that cost is less than 1/3 of my old Prius). That is simply awesome. If it is rebated to say $25, well big deal really.... Maybe I'm missing the point of the program.

For me, it was to help cover the cost of installing the charger. The estimates I received (for example) ranged from $2000 to $8000 not including the cost of the HPWC. I have a detached garage that's 120 feet from the service drop.

You can use the cash however you want, of course. The point of the rebate changes depending on what your situation is.

mknox · Apr 4, 2014

kbeckley said:
Well to be honest I am being less than scientific. I averaged my electricity my bills for the previous 3 years and then compared them to last year. The increase was $55-$60 per month. In the past years however we certainly have gotten more efficient (a better fridge, fewer incandescent bulbs etc) so your are right $55 is probably too low. But $100 seems too high. I obsessively only charge during the lowest rate times. Also I have charged a few times at our place in Collingwood. OK so call it ~$80-$100. It is still pretty darn cheap.

There are so many variables that the only way to know for sure is to use a separate sub-meter on the EV circuit. You also need to be comparing kWh and not dollars, especially over a period of years, since the rates have changed, and your pattern of usage between Off, Mid and On Peak periods can skew the dollars too.

Last month I drove 1954 miles (3144 km) and input 1061 kWh of energy into the car. At an "all-in" Off Peak rate of 11.8 cents, that equals $125.20. If I pro-rate down to your mileage, it works out to about $100 for you, all other factors being equal.

...and yes, that's a lot cheaper than gasoline to drive the same distance.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney · Apr 4, 2014

kbeckley said:
It's neat that Toronto hydro is doing this pilot but it is so cheap to run the Tesla on electricity now who needs a further rebate? Well of course anyone will like a rebate but the cost of running the car is already hugely inexpensive. It cost me about $55/month to run the Tesla last year at about 2500km driven/month (that cost is less than 1/3 of my old Prius). That is simply awesome. If it is rebated to say $25, well big deal really.... Maybe I'm missing the point of the program.

Without a rebate, how many people would participate in their studies and would they get the right kind of volunteers?

Toronto Hydro (Possible) Rebate

Member

New Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

2018 M3P

Well-Known Member

New Member

2018 M3P

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

2018 M3P

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads