Scratching the itch for a second EV!

gg_got_a_tesla · Mar 15, 2014

Hey All,

While we patiently wait for Model E that's expected in 2017, wife's been getting a bit frustrated with dealing with the clumsy rear seat access - when helping our tall, 7-year-old son get in and out in narrow parking spaces - in our second car, a 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman S. It has a "suicide" door on the passenger side; similar to the rear doors in the BMW i3.

Although she was never quite taken with Tesla as I have, she has come over to our side in general in that she loves the comfort and convenience of EVs (including HOV lane access) and loathes the gas prices and going to the gas station (I get saddled with that yucky chore most times!)

Her commute to/from work is no more than 15 miles roundtrip (she uses her company shuttles to hop from their San Mateo office to get to SF). When she does the school run to Palo Alto, it's no more than 30 miles roundtrip. Her occasional weekend excursions are no more than 60 miles.

Given all that and our mild weather, any of the non-Tesla EVs with their sub-100 mile range should work. The Model S will work just fine for our roadtrips. We do not want to spend much on something like an i3 though and would rather preserve funds for the Model E.

And, now, there's this almost ridiculous lease deal on a 2014 Nissan Leaf from a dealership nearby; the 24-month term is a bit of a problem (we may need an extra year for the Model E to be out) and will also not get us the $2,500 CA state rebate (that needs 36-month+ leases) but, we can work something out with the dealer maybe:

What do you all think?

Thanks in advance,
-GG

jerry33 · Mar 15, 2014

Sounds good to me. The Leaf's best use is as a second car. Just make sure that it has enough range for her on the weekends.

Mnlevin · Mar 15, 2014

You may want to look into the Honda FIT EV. They showed a lease for $259 per month INCLUDING physical Damage insurance AND installation of a charger AND no milage limit. They offered that in Mass where we have a second home and I was going to get it and move it down to S Fla. That seemed like a really good deal I think the range is about 80 miles. I think it is only available in Ca NY Mass and Az or something like that.

772 · Mar 15, 2014

I would avoid putting $3k down on a lease in case the car gets totaled for some reason... I would try to negotiate a $0 down lease if you can manage the higher monthly payments.

RandyS · Mar 15, 2014

I recently spoke to the program manager for California state rebates at CCSE. You have about 2 weeks left to get a car and apply for the State Rebate money before it is all given out (by approximately 4/1). He said there are currently no plans right now to put more funds in, and they're not going to build a waiting list....

gg_got_a_tesla · Mar 15, 2014

All good advice, thanks.

RandyS, that's surprising to hear about the CVRP rebate; the status here seems to indicate a lot more funds left:

Real-Time Funding Status for the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project | CCSE

Electric700 · Mar 15, 2014

Just so that you're aware, the Nissan LEAF does not have an active liquid battery thermal management system (TMS) like the Model S does, so many LEAF owners have reported battery degradation problems. If you only plan to lease and wait to purchase a Tesla Model E (or S or X), there might not be any issue.

Alternatively, you could check out the Ford Focus Electric which does have a TMS.

gg_got_a_tesla · Mar 15, 2014

Yes, the degradation is not a concern with the lease. And, by most accounts, Bay Area LEAFs have done well in that regard, I think, when compared to those in AZ, TX, etc.

I test-drove the Ford Focus Electric a few weeks ago and found the driving experience a bit underwhelming. Of course, I was comparing it with the MS! Never drove the LEAF.

palmer_md · Mar 15, 2014

I agree with the others that a zero down lease for 36 months would be the way to go. I've not tracked the lease deals lately, but for a while you could get some great bargains ($220/mo zero down 36). I think now that they are selling/leasing better those leases are not available, but you should be able to negotiate a pretty good deal on 36 months so that you can get the CA rebate. Leaf is a great car and you wife will love it.

hcsharp · Mar 15, 2014

We were in a similar situation. I've had a Roadster for 3yrs and we had an early reservation for a Model S. My wife wanted to go electric but the MS was just too big for her, and we didn't like Tesla's initial service/warrantee terms (which were later corrected). I begged her to get one anyway but ultimately she was driving it, and she said no. She considered the Leaf but liked the Ford Focus Electric a lot better. They both have the same range but the FFE has liquid thermal management of the battery which is a big plus in our climate. The car has been great. It's not a Tesla by any means, and we see it as a way to get by until Model E. The base model is fully loaded with more features than the Leaf SL (except no Chademo). It has a better crash test rating than the Leaf, and the batteries are holding up better in warm climates. Ford is currently offering some incredible lease deals on the FFE, not much different than you posted for the Leaf. The final bonus came when we found a Ford dealer who actually wanted to sell EVs and was actively promoting the FFE.

I also have a friend who's wife just bought a Fiat 500e and they love it. They don't sell it in VT so I don't know how it compares to the Leaf or FFE.

gg_got_a_tesla said:
Hey All,

While we patiently wait for Model E that's expected in 2017, wife's been getting a bit frustrated with dealing with the clumsy rear seat access - when helping our tall, 7-year-old son get in and out in narrow parking spaces - in our second car, a 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman S. It has a "suicide" door on the passenger side; similar to the rear doors in the BMW i3.

Although she was never quite taken with Tesla as I have, she has come over to our side in general in that she loves the comfort and convenience of EVs (including HOV lane access) and loathes the gas prices and going to the gas station (I get saddled with that yucky chore most times!)

Her commute to/from work is no more than 15 miles roundtrip (she uses her company shuttles to hop from their San Mateo office to get to SF). When she does the school run to Palo Alto, it's no more than 30 miles roundtrip. Her occasional weekend excursions are no more than 60 miles.

Given all that and our mild weather, any of the non-Tesla EVs with their sub-100 mile range should work. The Model S will work just fine for our roadtrips. We do not want to spend much on something like an i3 though and would rather preserve funds for the Model E.

And, now, there's this almost ridiculous lease deal on a 2014 Nissan Leaf from a dealership nearby; the 24-month term is a bit of a problem (we may need an extra year for the Model E to be out) and will also not get us the $2,500 CA state rebate (that needs 36-month+ leases) but, we can work something out with the dealer maybe:

bonnie · Mar 15, 2014

gg_got_a_tesla said:
All good advice, thanks.

RandyS, that's surprising to hear about the CVRP rebate; the status here seems to indicate a lot more funds left:

Real-Time Funding Status for the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project | CCSE

My understanding is that there are plenty of funds left, also.

GSP · Mar 15, 2014

The Leaf is a good choice. Roomy, good safety ratings, heated front and rear seats and steering wheel. 30 Amp charger and DC fast charging. If you do have unexpected driving and get low, just stop at a CHAdeMo station for 10-20 minutes.

There are other options, especially in California, but not with DC fast charge (or heated steering wheel).

Good luck with your purchase,

GSP

SwedishAdvocate · Mar 15, 2014

hcsharp said:
.../ I don't know how [the Fiat 500e] compares to the Leaf or FFE.

Well, at least when it comes to crash safety, I think we can probably be pretty certain that it’s not as good as a Leaf… (And apparently the FFE is even better still, so…)

EarlyAdopter · Mar 15, 2014

You're in CA. Get a RAV4 EV. Last I checked there were good 3yr lease deals. 120 miles of range. Tesla drivetrain, battery, and thermal management system. Plenty of room in back for a tall 7 year old.

It's roomier, faster, and has more range than a Leaf.

Link to offers:
Toyota Mobile Touch

Lloyd · Mar 15, 2014

120 miles on the Rav 4 is conservative. I have done 150 at highway speeds (60 mph) without any problem. No quick charging though!

Dave EV · Mar 15, 2014

gg_got_a_tesla said:
RandyS, that's surprising to hear about the CVRP rebate; the status here seems to indicate a lot more funds left:

Real-Time Funding Status for the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project | CCSE

About $5.7M left, that's only enough for less than 2,300 EVs. April sounds about right, though April 1st may be a bit early.

gg_got_a_tesla · Mar 15, 2014

RAV 4 EV is not an option as both my wife and I don't like high-riding vehicles. She wants a small car and hasn't been comfortable driving the Model S at all.

About the CVRP funds, the timeline makes sense now.

I'll aim for a $0-down, 3-year lease on a Leaf - I just don't have much faith in Ford - although I can't seem to find that deal with either Nissan USA or the local dealers.

Will have to trade in the Clubman too so, if we get badly low-balled there, may just have to pull the plug then.

772 · Mar 15, 2014

Most of the advertised lease "deals" include 2-3k down... but you can e-mail the dealers directly to get a quote on 0 down. IIRC, the total payment amount (including money down) over the lease term is approximately the same no matter how much you put down.

Dave EV · Mar 15, 2014

gg_got_a_tesla said:
Will have to trade in the Clubman too so, if we get badly low-balled there, may just have to pull the plug then.

Make sure you hit up CarMax to get a good ball park figure on your old car. They will typically give you a better price than the dealer and it's no-hassle from what I understand. You'll still do better in general selling it private party, though.

davewill · Mar 16, 2014

She'll love the the LEAF. I'd have bought my 2011 off the 3 year lease if the battery degradation in SoCal hadn't bit quite so hard. Three years in NoCal will be fine with her commute. Do be sure to get DCQC and the 6kW charger. That said, go drive the Rav before dismissing it. I didn't want an SUV either, but it drives electric smooth, and parking mine has turned out pretty painless. It seems relatively narrow for its class.

Scratching the itch for a second EV!

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