EV Credit, TurboTax, & the IRS

Nathan Smith · Mar 4, 2014

Hi guys,

Thought I would post my experience thus far for claiming my EV credit for 2013... Take it as a warning.

I used TurboTax to fill my 2013 taxes and submitted them the beginining of Feb. TurboTax took the info for my Model S (once the form was updated) without issue and seemed to have correctly calculated my return. I electronically filled and waited for my cash back.

After a bit - I started checking the IRS "where's my refund" website. Initially it didn't provide me any real info (won't discuss that) but last week it finally showed that I would be getting a deposit soon. However, it was for a lot less than what I had submitted. As it was the weekend, I couldn't call the IRS and the website didn't provide any info as to why the number had changed. So I dug a bit, and ran some number -- and it was clear that they had removed the EV credit. More research and I discovered that the form 6251 hadn't been included in my return. Form 6251 is for AMT and since I didn't have to pay AMT - TurboTax ddn't generate that form. Form 8396 (the one for EV credit) instructions don't mention needing the AMT 6251 in all cases - you will find that requirement in the instructions for the 6251

. However, this requirement isn't new, so why TurboTax #@!& that up is beyond me:cursing:. Of course, this is all speculation on my part - so I waited until today to talk with the IRS about my situation. The IRS agent I got was VERY nice, really - she was NICE, but ultimately not useful. Once I got her on the line, I asked why my return had changed. She said she would have to recreate my return to try and figure it out. With my prodding, we concluded that indeed the EV credit had been disallowed. But she didn't have a clue why (during our conversation she often mentioned that she wasn't trained on this topic). I then noted that I hadn't got my notice from the IRS stating the change and if she had access to it. She mentioned that she didn't have the actual letter, but it would read something along the line of "we noted a math error corrected it and came up with a new number". Hey Captain Obvious - you took out 7500, so yes there is now a math error... She expressed that is the most I could expect out of the form and further more there isn't anyone there that could tell me why the EV credit was disallowed. Because she was REALLY nice - I didn't have the heart to start cursing on the spot.

End result, I needed to do an amendment anyways - so I will do a 1040X and include the missing form and hope that works (btw: that can take 2+ months to get back once I file it)

For those who are getting ready to do you taxes, take all this as a warning...

One more note: Agent did know what a Model S was - and had positive opinion of it!

tiblot · Mar 4, 2014

Thx for the tip. Good info.

If you aren't self employed, why not just add like 6-7 allowances?

Nathan Smith · Mar 4, 2014

Since this is a one time thing - I didn't go through and update my W-4 forms. Plus I have some other personnal things going on that made estimating taxes difficult, so I didn't bother.

ElSupreme · Mar 4, 2014

Your post made me look at my account. I put in my taxes around the same time. I actually got my rebate today and the full EV credit. So not a problem for everyone.

But definitely check your account. I certainly wouldn't miss $7,500.

Hope you get it sorted out.

EDIT: I normally go through the AMT part of Turbo Tax to be thorough, even though I don't get close to it. So it may have generated the form you were referencing. I'll check when I get home.

qwk · Mar 4, 2014

I got audited a few years ago because Turbo Tax didn't submit my entire tax return. The IRS came looking for $$$, and the Turbo Tax customer service just brushed me off. After a trip to Tax Court(this is what it took), the IRS finally dismissed the case, but it took 2 years of headaches. Needless to say, Turbo Tax sucks, and if there is ever a problem(like the OP)they will not care one bit.

Nathan Smith · Mar 4, 2014

I should note: I did talk to TurboTax service. The agent I got was also fairly nice - but again not trained in this area. However, I did (with a little help from her) figure out how to print the form and she got me a refund on my TurboTax purchase price based on thier 100% Max Tax Return guarantee. This included image is a list of the forms TurboTax thinks I should need - note 6251 is missing (even after I went through the wizard).

Of course, the IRS could have some other issue that they don't want to share with me...

Beavis · Mar 4, 2014

It's one of the pitfalls of filing early. Bugs. I think last year, Turbo's efile wouldn't work if you took the credit so you had to file a paper return if you wanted to file early.

Kipernicus · Mar 4, 2014

Beavis said:
It's one of the pitfalls of filing early. Bugs. I think last year, Turbo's efile wouldn't work if you took the credit so you had to file a paper return if you wanted to file early.

Score one for procrastination! I have yet to do mine ...

glhs272 · Mar 5, 2014

$7,500 Tax Credit Rejected

I just received my tax refund today electronically and the $7,500 tax credit is missing/rejected. I financed through Tesla, as I own the vehicle and this is not a lease. I certainly pay a lot of taxes with my income, so that is not an issue. Tesla Financing is through US Bank. I filed through TurboTax. I called the IRS and they won't explain why they removed it, only to say they no longer provide phone support for this issue.

Anyone else running into this problem? Any ideas? I have read though some other threads pertaining to banks "stealing" their tax credits, but is in the case of a lease which would make you ineligible for the tax credit. In my case I "own" the vehicle. I have not found anything that pertains to my issue.

RandyS · Mar 5, 2014

Sorry to hear that...As far as another point of reference, I purchased my car in May 2013 and filed with TurboTax on 2/15 to claim the credit. Like you, my federal tax liability was way over the $7500 amount. Since I bought my TurboTax from Amazon, I took advantage of their offer to put some of my refund into an Amazon gift card and then get a 10% bonus on that amount (so the entire refund is processed through a partner of Amazon and then split up - Amazon gets their part for the gift card and I get the balance deposited into my checking account). My portion of the refund just hit my checking account today (2 1/2 weeks after submittal), and it is for the correct amount. The gift card code is supposed to be sent later today...

Do you have any more details about why it was denied. Any error messages, etc?

glhs272 · Mar 5, 2014

I don't have any further details at the moment. The IRS automated message indicates that they will mail me a response today. So hopefully it will be a better explanation then what I received on the phone. IRS phone support says they are not allowed to talk about it. The only thing they said is that you can appeal the changes by submitting a letter.

I will try to give Tesla a call and see if they can provide any help or clarity on this issue.

Edit:

Couldn't find a relevant contact at Tesla. It's either sales or service related. Any suggested contacts with Tesla? I did submit a question about this through their website.

Gizmotoy · Mar 5, 2014

Wonder if someone else fraudulently filed for your credit. I recall reading that happened a couple times last year, too. All you need is the VIN, which considering your signature, could probably be guessed relatively easily, and to file first. From what I remember of the outcome, the IRS essentially chose to believe whoever filed first, even though the owner could prove that VIN belonged to him.

FlasherZ · Mar 5, 2014

I don't believe the IRS is permitted to "adjust" the amount of refund of a properly filled-out and filed return, except to address outstanding debts with the IRS. They must refund what you've figured on your forms, then go through the audit process to demand an amendment to your returns.

Perhaps a form was missing or TurboTax didn't fill out the forms correctly? I use a tax preparer who is an Enrolled Agent, so I don't have experience with TurboTax.

- - - Updated - - -

Gizmotoy said:
Wonder if someone else fraudulently filed for your credit. I recall reading that happened a couple times last year, too. All you need is the VIN, which considering your signature, could probably be guessed relatively easily, and to file first. From what I remember of the outcome, the IRS essentially chose to believe whoever filed first, even though the owner could prove that VIN belonged to him.

I could certainly be wrong, but I thought the typical process here is that you would receive the refund, then a letter stating that the IRS is disputing your $7,500 credit, which effectively starts the audit process. You then have the option to accept it, or to appeal using the standard methods.

AmpedRealtor · Mar 5, 2014

FlasherZ said:
I don't believe the IRS is permitted to "adjust" the amount of refund of a properly filled-out and filed return, except to address outstanding debts with the IRS. They must refund what you've figured on your forms, then go through the audit process to demand an amendment to your returns.

Perhaps a form was missing or TurboTax didn't fill out the forms correctly? I use a tax preparer who is an Enrolled Agent, so I don't have experience with TurboTax.

- - - Updated - - -

I could certainly be wrong, but I thought the typical process here is that you would receive the refund, then a letter stating that the IRS is disputing your $7,500 credit, which effectively starts the audit process. You then have the option to accept it, or to appeal using the standard methods.

My partner correctly filed his 2009 tax returns, including the forms to receive a first time home buyer credit. However, IRS sent him a letter declining to pay the first time home buyer credit until he supplied proof that he actually owned the property. They wanted copies of the HUD-1 settlement statement and deed. This was despite the fact that he filed the forms properly. So it seems the IRS can decline payment even though your returns were filed correctly. Nothing in the returns required that he include a HUD-1 settlement statement or deed with his tax return.

I discussed this with my accountant. She told me that IRS does this quite often with tax credits that are subject to a lot of fraud. They withhold the credit until proof can be offered of actual ownership.

3dv · Mar 5, 2014

Saw something similar here:
EV Credit, TurboTax, the IRS

Seems to be Turbo Tax doesn't send in the AMT forms if you're not subject to it - but apparently the IRS wants it regardless (in many cases) for the EV credit.
Haven't seen my refund yet, but think I may be in the same boat.

glhs272 · Mar 5, 2014

Well the IRS certainly did withhold the refund amount and clearly stated they did so. Right now I am pouring over my tax docs to see if I made any mistakes or such.

Thanks for help with the issue. I assume most others here have not had any trouble receiving their tax credits? Maybe they are just picking on me.

landover · Mar 5, 2014

Subscribed!

glhs272 · Mar 5, 2014

Gizmotoy said:
Wonder if someone else fraudulently filed for your credit. I recall reading that happened a couple times last year, too. All you need is the VIN, which considering your signature, could probably be guessed relatively easily, and to file first. From what I remember of the outcome, the IRS essentially chose to believe whoever filed first, even though the owner could prove that VIN belonged to him.

I suppose fraud is possible. However I didn't include my last five VIN numbers in my signature until well after filing my taxes. I filed on Feb. 8th, almost as soon as I could with TurboTax. My signature was created just recently. I guess anyone on the street passing by the car could snap a picture of the VIN and file that as soon as possible. As soon as I get more info, I will post it here. I did go through all of my tax forms and can't find any obvious mistakes.

Has anyone received their tax credit this year? Specifically if you filed without any "advance" or anything.

Banahogg · Mar 5, 2014

EV Credit, TurboTax, the IRS

glhs272 · Mar 5, 2014

Banahogg said:
EV Credit, TurboTax, the IRS

Thanks Banahogg I didn't see that thread. Yep, I bet that's what happened. Turbotax f****d my return. So for you procrastinators out there, you have been warned. My suggestion: don't use turbotax.

EV Credit, TurboTax, & the IRS

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